Can you good sorts please school me on these leaners?

[KiwiBro]

I've asked this elsewhere but apart from a few good replies, the bulk has been smart-arse wise cracks from the usual suspects. Seeing how the last leaner thread I read that went spastic when assorted axe-grinders and loose-units jumped right in was in the firewood section, I thought I'd ask in here where I've always been looked after so well in the past. All ass-kissing aside, on with the lesson:

• Willows.
• Big leans, some over 45 degrees.
• Felling uphill, such that the tops can sometimes load up on the hillside before the trunk has come free. Tension wood becomes compression wood too fast for me to react.
• Electric fence, live, can't be trashed.
• Bucking a 8' corridor along fence line.
• Last guy to work this area tried pushing a leaner over, it broke free, pivoted around a fork and flipped him and his digger into the middle of next week.
• I've completed the job and didn't break anything, remarkably, but want to learn better ways if possible.
• Photos:

Best I could come up with was boring the middle as much as I dare - and I'll say right now, I find willow really hard to predict - then hammer in a wedge or two and cut down like releasing a strap. If it pushes back on me the wedges are there to allow me to get my saw out.

Is there a better way please? It was a few days of plenty of pucker moments and the worst damage I did to myself was upsetting both a hive of bees and a nest of wasps. Run, Forest, ruuuun.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom.

 

[northmanlogging]

you actually asked someone how to fall trees in the firewood thread? Your a brave man...

any way, for the leaners that are going more or less where you want them the bore and strap thing works pretty good, I usually have better luck with the coos bay.

Coos involves either a triangle back cut or T back cut essentially your removing most of the wood on the back cut leaving a strip down the middle perpandicular to the face, then dogging in and blasting through it as quick as possible. the triangle is easier, and therefore a little faster, the T is a tad more difficult to pull off so it takes a bit longer but arguably has better results

For swinging them... if your up to it... and its not always 100% or Hel even 75% if you put in a fat siswheel, or a siswheel and a secondary vertical plunge behind it, you can get some good distance with the swing.

A siswheel is sort like a block face only its on one side of the face cut, the side you want to swing towards, and fairly tall, what it does is allow the hold wood to flex rather than tear on that side keeping the tree attached to the stump for as long as possible, the trick is giving it enough hold wood to do its work and watching the top for movement, then severing it at the right moment, its possible to swing it around way farther then you intended... The secondary is similar to the face side of the sis only its plunged into the back side of the cut, aproximately where you want the hold wood to end up or a little shy, thus allowing the hold wood to flex even more. The secondary works very will in brittle wood like cotton wood. I call the secondary a Tramp Sis on account of the member here that shared it.

I don't have any pictures on hand but I'm sure someone one here does

As for back leaners... depending on how bad they are there is a plethora of options, from jacking, backing first, wedge stacking, Big Yellow Diesel Wedges (everyone's favorite), on down to hanging a line and winching over.

These are all pretty general things, but then your question was pretty general... If you ever have something more specific pictures help, but not 100%

Hope all this makes sense.

 

[Nuzzy]

I don't have any pictures on hand but I'm sure someone one here does.

A couple. Many more on the channel. Love his vids.

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks

you actually asked someone how to fall trees in the firewood thread? Your a brave man...

Nah, on another forum, but I recall the wildfire of discourse that burned for way too long in a recent leaner thread in the firewood section on AS and thought better of asking there.

I'm trying to learn safe ways to do things without being too dependant on wedges. Metals helped out with a few suggestions and I'm aware of the siswheel and blocking out the faces and soft dutchmen, etc for encouraging trees off their lay, although I've not had enough opportunities to try them all out yet. By opportunities, I mean no-hazard areas where if I get it a little or a lot wrong it won't mean more than a bit of extra time skidding them out.

However, this was the first time cutting willow. I don't like it. Sometimes, will move huge amounts before breaking, other times it seldom gives any before letting go. Really weird to me. I just could not find a way to do these heavy leaners consistently without putting in a wedge/s because even when they would ping off when cutting the strap, the tops would often then almost instantly hit the bank and the trunk would back up and clamp the kerf shut. I tried, and it resulted in me using another saw to get my first one out.Also, didn't want the trunks to hit the deck until I had taken some weight out because they would have wrecked the electric fence I was trying to save. Man, willows totally saturated with water are heavy logs.

Couldn't put much if any of a face in many of them because was heaps of compression and that would be the time the willow decided it wanted to move and clamp down on my bar.

Must be some smart ways. Maybe this os one of those situations where wedges are the best I can do?
Also, when bucking, they'd almost always want to crush the kerf under the weight of the logs and the push-back from the top brunches on the hill. I tried a suggestion of basically cutting out the sap wood and leaving a heart post and then cutting through that, trying to chase tension wood but it often ended up turning into compression wood before I could react.

 

[HuskStihl]

First: sorry for not being helpful when you posted this in another location. I've been thinking about the heavy leaning willow which will fall uphill into a hillside before the face closes. If you can't put in a decent face before you get pinched, and the back cut closes due to the tree hitting the hillside before you can get thru, I feel the only option would be to approach from the side, bore in, and all the way through right in the middle, then gut out the middle 2/3-3/4 of the trunk. I'd then come out the top side quickly from the bored out center. The tree should then fall into the hillside. If u'r lucky the strap at the bottom will break, if not, nibble from the sides until it does. I am the furthest thing from a pro on this entire site, but I doubt even the pro guys have much experience with the situation you describe.

 

[northmanlogging]

To be honest the biggest willows I've ever cut where for roasting marshmallows or hanging fish on...

But another trick is to not face it bore through and leave a strap on the compression side, then cut the tension side. Normally I would not suggest doing this, should always put a face in... You won't have much control, but if its leaning mostly the right direction the biggest issue would be the possibility of a chair or kick back of the entire tree.

Also using a humboldt face, should help eliminate the sit back issue. Make it steep and as deep as you can, allowing the stem to tip as far as possible, and then kick standing on the under cut, rather then sliding back like a normal face would.

 

[treeslayer2003]

kiwi, sorry bout over there but honestly I don't have much to add. them things were almost horizontal n I don't think there is much better way than what you did.

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks guys. No apologies necessary; it was my poor choice of thread to post the question in on the other site.
Sounds like I wasn't too far off an acceptable way to approach these trees. A few more pics:




These ones weren't going to push back before flattening the fence, so was able to cut 'em off to the left of the fence and then block out the remaining trunk to minimise fence damage.

 

[imagineero]

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/extreme-lean-heavy-on-lean-side-heart-rot.205011/

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks. If think I missed an opportunity to experiment with the different coos bay variations. But at least I'm still alive to have a crack if the opportunity presents itself in the future.