certification from different associations

[blackwaterguide]

Hey guys,
I would appreciate any advice on where and how to get certified as an arborist. I know there is the ISA, NAA, TCIA, etc. Which one should you go with. Ive been climbing for years but have never taken a horticulture class or a aboriculture class.
Now I'm getting older and I would like to get into the consulting end of the business. With certain legal experience one may testify in court as an expert.Would it take a full bachelors degree or what am I getting into?
Paul, I notice you are a consultant. got any pointers on how I may get started? Thanks again 'fellas.


Blackwaterguide

 

[Treeman14]

As I understand it, the ISA certification is for the individual whereas the TCIA program is for the company. So I would recommend becoming an ISA Certified Arborist first. To be an expert witness does not require a degree, but it does require an extensive knowledge base and the confidence to present yourself as a professional in the courtroom; something which may be very intimidating to the novice. Do everything you can to expand your education, including reading as much as possible, attending seminars and workshops, taking college classes, etc. Also look into ASCA certification.

Search the archives at this site for more info on this.

 

[Stumper]

Right-What Brett said. ISA offers certifications for individuals. NAA is no more-it became TCIA which offers Aceditation for companies. ASCA is the American Society of Consulting Arborists. If you want to be a serious consultant then you probably need to check them out.

 

[treeseer]

Brett and Justin are right. If you want to consult, the best experience is the ASCA academy, next feb in atlanta.

"With certain legal experience one may testify in court as an expert."
I have no legal experience like law school, but I do testify. Courts set their own standards for "expert"; experience and certs are key, and CA is the best starting place. Also, a little chutzpah goes a long way (not always to a good place tho.)

 

[jimmyq]

I offer consulting and I have my ISA cert. My consulting is for hazard tree reports (AKA removal permits) and IPM type work. Most of the consulting work I am called for is fairly basic stuff but I think the ISA cert is part of why a client would call versus any landscaper or tree company. No legal experience for me yet and I am not certain I would take the work, I guess it would depend on the situation.

 

[treeseer]

Paul it'd be interesting to see what criteria are allowed for removal permits in BC; can you link some info?. Here, we are taking a full look at risk, and recommending mitigation before removal in many cases.

Smart of you to hold back on doing witness work; it can be hugely challenging and rewarding sometimes but extremely frustrating and risky in other ways.

 

[blackwaterguide]

thank you for the cert link. I didn't get your name or message to stay (computer idiot) but it seems as if this was the type of info I was searching for. Again, thank all of you for your input. This site has taught me as much as I learned in the tree for many years. You guys are top notch!

 

[jimmyq]

treeseer: Vancouver and Surrey have fairly stiff bylaws for removals. Here are some links that I have for reference:

http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/commsvcs/BYLAWS/TREE/by-law.pdf

http://surrey.ihostez.com/contenten...&s=537572726579&p=67656E6572616C&d=3134363633

http://www.city.whiterock.bc.ca/2005Parks/Tree-Management.html

http://www.burnaby.ca/cityhall/depa...uilding/bldng_artcls/bldng_artcls_trbylw.html

 

[jimmyq]

I use the ISA photo guide to hazard trees checklist and I put together a few paragraphs regarding the tree, the health and some quotes from the photographic guide, trees and development and I usually flip through Dirr's for any useful tidbits. When I have spoken to the city guys their main request for the report is for a definitive remove or not remove statement from the arborist to close the discussion.

 

[treeseer]

Thanks Paul,

I looked at Vancouver's and thought they were straightforward and fair. Many US regs are written in a more convoluted fashion and have more loopholes.

I too use the form in the red book still. Others say it has too much detail to be practical, but it doesn't take that long to use it. I too use dirr's manual for info first, and others where needed.

It's great to learn that somoeone in the opposite corner of the continent is doing the same things; consistency yields credibility, so i'll be citing this info as I work with towns here. Thanks again!

 

[NickfromWI]

...No legal experience for me yet and I am not certain I would take the work...QUOTE]

If it was me, as soon as a client called me, I walked on to the property and saw that they were greatly wronged by another and I might be the one who could clearly explain to a court why my client has been wronged, i'd pretty much feel obligated to offer my services.

love
nick

 

[jimmyq]

Nick, I have no problem helping out and such but the legal system may call out areas where I may not be adequate to advise or comment, I have little experience valuing trees for instance, I guess what I meant is that I would humbly decline if the situation was above my limits? If the information or opinion needed was within my realm of knowledge I would happily take the work.

 

[treeseer]

If the information or opinion needed was within my realm of knowledge I would happily take the work.

And if certain aspects were outside your realm, then you could call in a sub. I do this all the time for soil and chemical expertise that I lack.

Nick I like your attitude. are you in the home improvement game full time, or are you into trees much? There's a lady with sweetgums in sd that needs some help; see the homeowner forum.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Being an expert witness can be very demanding and stressful, thats why consultants charge so much. Getting attacked left right and centre from lawyer is not such a nice experience.

Work experience and qualifications both contribute toward becoming a reputable expert witness. Both are preferred, i wouldn't like to go up against someone with similar experience with a qualification if i didn't have one, - your opinion just wont carry the same approbation.

 

[treeseer]

Being an expert witness can be very demanding and stressful, thats why consultants charge so much. Getting attacked left right and centre from lawyer is not such a nice experience.

Very true, but it's very satisfying when their attacks are parried and their quiver is empty and you look them in the eye and they know that you know that the game is over.

Work experience and qualifications both contribute toward becoming a reputable expert witness. Both are preferred, i wouldn't like to go up against someone with similar experience with a qualification if i didn't have one, - your opinion just wont carry the same approbation.

True again, but not so much. Once established as an expert, the amount of certs and degrees is not so material. I've testified against guys with big u degrees while I have none, and still won points based on fact, not prestige. Don't sweat the status thing so much, Jim.

Critical to have a complete and accurate resume. Every scrap of work experience and training should be in there. **Even if you don't want to consult, this is a tool that can open doors to jobs and contracts.** Warning: the first thing the opposing attorney does is to comb thru it so do not exaggerate even a little; getting busted is very embarassing and hurts your client and your rep. :blush:

 

[a_lopa]

guy can you give me an example of a tree saved in court?JUST CURIOUS.

 

[treeseer]

lopa most court cases are about recovering damages from the loss of trees.

Trees are preserved here through other legal action--injunctions, cease-and-desist and stop-work orders, suits that are settled before trial, etc. These cases often call for depositions, which are recorded testimony made outside of court.

I've given maybe 1 deposition for every 20 reports I've written, and testified in court maybe once for every 6 depositions that I've given. Most everyone understands the need to avoid the expense of litigation.

 

[Jim1NZ]

won points based on fact, not prestige.

True treeseer, the expert that sticks purely to fact rather than opinion will always have the most regard.

I was just saying that when it comes down to opinion, the guy with the highest qualification, if experience is equal will carry the most regard.

 

[Jim1NZ]

guy can you give me an example of a tree saved in court?JUST CURIOUS.

Trees on development sites, or roading developments. Most protected tree cases will go to court if trees are to be affected by more than 5%

 

[treeseer]

I was just saying that when it comes down to opinion, the guy with the highest qualification, if experience is equal will carry the most regard.

And I am just saying that the opinion that is bolstered with the best facts and reasoning should prevail, no matter the individual's resume'. Esperience is never equal, and besides in the bigger picture it's just another qualification.

There's truth in what you are saying, and that should be a big motivator to increase one's qualifications. But I try not to place too much weight on that, else I'd be intimidated when countering the opinions of a PhD. To me those are just letters, like ca, cms, bcma, ms, bs. Alphabet soup is not very nourishing if there's no meat in it, or even vegemite.

"Most protected tree cases will go to court if trees are to be affected by more than 5%". Sounds like NZ is way more litigious than the USA, in that govts are more likely to sue to retain the trees' contributions to their citizens' quality of life.