Cinsidering Woodland Mills BSM for small farmstead

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That heat deflector isn't the answer for the Honda's, it's a cheapo partial fix, that doesn't always work. A big mfg. over here quit Honda all together because they got sick of the Honda's problems in cold weather. They mfg tree trimmers, and went to Vanguards.


Norwood quit Honda's for more reasons than the cold weather problems they have!

I'm not saying Kohlers are junk, but i'll take a Vanguard over a Kohler every time. My Grass Hopper/CIH/Cub Caddet dealer has replaced quite a few OHV Kohlers, that for no reason dropped a valve with low hrs. on them. They now carry Hoppers with the Kubota gas motors as much as possible. They are a great gas motor! I have a Kubota gas motor on a pump, it runs like a million bucks, just like it always has since it was new in the early 80's.

SR

We all have our own opinions and am respectful of that.
Mfg's when deciding to use an engine want the cheapest one they can get, its not the engines fault. Both Honda and to a much lesser extent Briggs are global motors, with Honda being more global. All GX620 or any GX motor is not the same, its all down to its build code, and application.
The heat shield fix tossed out by a certain company was the cheapest route they could take from a standard parts list. CCT packages and options have been available for years up here in Canada, and most already include it, if it may possibly be run in the winter. Lawnmowers no, snowthrowers yes. Same engines different build codes...aka options.

Take a look at some Briggs parts diagrams they have it also.

Your Kohler dealer may want to learn about hydraulic valves and full pressure lubrication, hydraulic valves really really dislick a lack of lubrication! (not using full pressure oil filters messes things up in no time.....hence no why all oem kohler filters are full pressure).

Kubota=Japan parent company, quality all round, like Honda and worth it.

Yes get a Woodland Mill

To the original OP, get yourself a mill, its the most fun ever.
 
Well, at least two of the Kohlers that dropped valves, one at 10 hrs and another at 60hrs, were all origional motors with nothing changed filt/oil or anything else. My dealer is a good dealer and being a CIH tractor dealer, he has very good mechanics. Kohler sent out new motors, and the dealer never opened the old ones, they just stuck them in the crates and sent them back.

Sometimes the Kohler 15's that Norwood used, would throw a fit and be hard to start! I helped out Norwood at a show one time, and the Kohler would sometimes be very hard to start, it sure was embarrassing when someone wanted to run the mill, and it would act up! lol

Many mfg do buy cheapest, but not all... BUT, even Honda doesn't mfg all of their motors in Japan anymore. Take the 13's, they aren't as good as they use to be, and they no longer are made in Japan... Honda subs them out! Honda warr is terrible, they have the attitude that nothing they sell breaks, and if your's breaks it HAS to be YOUR fault! lol

Remember that guy on the Norwood forun that his Honda 20 broke a crank with 10 hrs on the clock??? He had a heck of a time with Honda, because they insisted it just doesn't happen with their motor! After something like 6 weeks of down time, they finally replaced the motor!

Then their's was that time with all the problems with broken muffler bolts on the 13's. Norwood had fits trying to get Honda to take care of that problem! They finally did, but it took a loooong time!

The Vanguards are made in Japan, saddly that's why they are good!! The only thing i ever heard negative from owners is, in some applications they could use a bigger air filt... B&S does offer one, but unless you spec it, you don't get it.

I agree that we all have different experiences, that's what makes the world go around!! lol

SR
 
Interesting perspectives on the small engine debate. My own experiences: Vanguard on my Hustler zero-turn mower was a complete POS from the get go. Engine was actually replaced under warranty - after three starters, countless batteries, valve adjustments, and trips to the dealer in mid season. The replacement just blew a few weeks ago while sitting at idle (and yes, all regular maintenance was up to date, 'cuz with the troubles I've had with this $4k+ mower, I ain't touchin' nuthin'... dealer does everything). Maybe they're the idiots, but either way, the next replacement is gonna be a Kawasaki or Kohler. Great mower - crap engine.

I have two 10 or 11kw gensets with Honda GX620's that are probably about seven+ years old now. One is emergency power for the house, and one for my back yard shop. Both are electric start, and get fired up a few times a year, with occasional 24/7 operation of a few days to a few weeks after a storm. I run Sunoco Supreme whateverthehell they call it with a fuel stabilizer, and while not the same type of use as my my mower, I would say it's life is easily as hard. They have always started and run fine every time.

4" Trash pump w/ Yamaha 12hp, pretty much the same story as the Honda's, but it is picky about having good gas. 5 hp B&S on a commercial lawn edger... even worse than the Vanguard. Absolutely, positively have to run it dry every time and then store it with Mechanic in a Bottle, or equivalent, and even then, fresh plug and many cusses to re-fire. My old Troy Bilt "Horse" tiller is actually an 8 hp (I had to check... thought it was a ten for some reason), and it's been heavily used for several months out of the year for over 20 years, according to the boss, er da wife. Worn out I don't know how many sets of tires, tines, rub blocks, belts and reverse hubs - but using the same gas precautions (Sunoco+ and stabilizer) she starts and runs like a champ all day. Think I rebuilt the carb once or twice, air filter, oil changes... standard fair for that long in use, but always starts and runs smooth, and I do use the crap out'a the thing every year. My 2-man auger has a little Honda on it, and I can't count the abuses this thing has survived, but again... like a Timex.

I buy returns, close-outs and damages from a local liquidator and fix 'em up from time to time, and while the B&S are usually ubiquitous as far as parts are concerned, they always seem to need something. The Honda's, rarely so. I realize this anecdotal crap proves nothing, and as already stated - it's all personal, but I've had great luck/success with the Kohler, Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki 4 stroke small engines. Enough so that I don't mind paying more to avoid another B&S.

Getting back to the mills and the issue of mo' bigger is always better, I have and do own quite a few Kubota water cooled diesels (Skid Steer Loaders, Tractors, etc.), and have always found them to be rock solid. Still doing my due diligence on just what I'll be cutting and what if any real market exists in our new area. It seems likely that for the purposes of processing the immediately available wood and sawing up cedar for strip built kayaks, some hard woods for furniture, and some oak for fencing, the little Chi-com machine would be fine. Slow and tedious perhaps, but adequate let's say. Now since more power always appeals to my Tim Allen side, the idea of a fully automated diesel hydro mill and firewood processor is tempting to say the least, as long as I can plan a reasonable path for recovering the bulk of my investment. Obviously a bigger, badder, portable has greater possibilities, I just have to make certain that I don't end up in the trap of so many that seem to think that ya just buy the mill or FWP and the world will beat a path to your door with gobs of cash. A lot of the used units that I've inquired about seem to share that history, especially nowadays.

So, veering OT a little further, how are people making money with these mills... really! The manufacturers are convinced that there are millions of people who would gladly sell the family cow for a sawyer if only there were more of them around, and yet - every old circ saw mill around me is now kaput, so what gives? Do I justify the cost against only that which I know I'll do for myself, or do I put on the rosy red glasses and try to convince the crazy woman that sleeps next to me, with an icepick in her hand, that I'm gonna be the next Weyerehauser...if only I can get that 800 hp hydro mill?
 
A couple of comments...

Portable sawmilling has been pretty good for me, since most sawyers don't want to fool with moving their mill, and most potential customers don't have a way to bring you logs.

I've had three BSMs, including a full hydraulic TimberHarvester, and there are a few things I like about the one I'm sawing with these days. It only takes 10 to 15 minutes to set up on a site. In fact, I have backed it into a driveway, cut a few logs with it still attached to my truck, then pulled out again. A rigid frame will let you do that.

The log stops have rollers that make turning the logs with a cant hook much easier, and adjust in and out, which makes it possible to hold some of the odd-shaped pieces I work on, such as cutting walnut crotches for gun stocks. Maximum log dia is 34". The advertised maximum width of cut is 28", but I can take the blade guides off and pick up a couple more inches and still cut straight. Controls are simple, and the engine idles back and the blade brake engages when you let go of the throttle lever. When you adjust the carriage height, it stays put-- no need to lock it in place. So far, no problem with the Briggs & Scrapiron engine.

I can turn most logs with a cant hook, but I wrap a strap around the log and lift with the front end loader if I need help. I've also got a hand winch for loading and turning logs if I'm at a customer's location and a loader isn't available. As far as I know, Norwood is the only mill with hydraulic upgrades that you can put on at any time. Even though you're a capable fabricator, it might be a consideration-- they've got some pretty ingenius solutions to the problems involved.

Here in Missouri, most of what I cut is oak, and some of it is pretty ugly. Also cut hedge, hickory, and cherry. With a sharp blade and everything lined up right, I've had good results.

_WhiteOak_02m.jpg
 
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You have had a VERY much difference experience than me. I probably have 20 small gas motors around here right now, and i like my Vanguard the best. Don't lump all of the other Briggs line with the Vanguard line!

That heat deflector isn't the answer for the Honda's, it's a cheapo partial fix, that doesn't always work. A big mfg. over here quit Honda all together because they got sick of the Honda's problems in cold weather. They mfg tree trimmers, and went to Vanguards.

Some of the ATV's that use Honda's had to come up with complicated fixes for the Honda's too, then there's Honda's lack of warr. when you need it!

Norwood quit Honda's for more reasons than the cold weather problems they have!

I'm not saying Kohlers are junk, but i'll take a Vanguard over a Kohler every time. My Grass Hopper/CIH/Cub Caddet dealer has replaced quite a few OHV Kohlers, that for no reason dropped a valve with low hrs. on them. They now carry Hoppers with the Kubota gas motors as much as possible. They are a great gas motor! I have a Kubota gas motor on a pump, it runs like a million bucks, just like it always has since it was new in the early 80's.

I stand by my origional post, because that's what i've found to be true over all the years i've been buying and useing small gas motors.

SR

You know its funny...i have never even given a second thought about the Vanguard on my garden tractor ! ITs going on 17-18 years old now
and it still runs great like the day I bought it. No oil problems,no muffler rust out , no carb adjustments,no plug problems,no gas problems,
no starter problems nothing,no malfunctions whatsoever.....even after forgetting and leaving it out in the rain and snow.
If its warm out tomorrow....I think I will hug my Vanguard!!!!!:msp_rolleyes:
 
Rearden, it's been over three months since your original post, and you've been real quiet. Did you get a band saw mill yet? Would love to see photos, or at least get an update. Qbilder-- a Missouri T-shirt and an 8N Ford-- you'd fit right in over here, though both you and your tractor look to be in better shape than me and "Old Henry"! Here's a photo of my hydraulic log turner-- a strap hooked to the log and wrapped around the underside of it with the other end hooked onto the front end loader. Works ever' time.

LogTurn_01.jpg
 
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