clutch

[jerrycmorrow]

yall know that sometimes i ask DA questions. here's my latest.
clutch on my 77cc saw is slipping; seems to have gotten worse since i rebuilt it. through the help of some AS peoples i was able to determine that the clutch cup diameter is "correct" and is relatively unworn. it measures 3.107" dia.; the clutch shoes measure ~ 2.95". looks like a good fit. why would the clutch slip so badly that the engine runs merrily along and the chain is taking a break in a log? doesn't really take much leaning on it to stop the chain (this brand is famous for having mucho grunt but not this one). chain has maybe 3 hours on it, is not too tight, and is sharp. not binding in the bar (also has about 3 hours on it). thought perhaps i had a leaky seal (they also have about 3 hours); other than normal dirt i really can't see anything on the clutch or cup that i would think would cause lose of friction. i thought maybe the shoes were binding in the spider; nope. the springs appear to be OE but might just swap some other ones on there. i plan to clean the shoes but am wondering if brake cleaner would be bad for them (that's the DA question).
any thoughts or suggestions? thanks muchly, jerry

 

[Steve NW WI]

Jerry, just a thought here: How glazed/shiny are your drum and shoes? Some fairly fine sandpaper should at least give a temporary benefit?

I take it my box showed up down there?

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Jerry, just a thought here: How glazed/shiny are your drum and shoes? Some fairly fine sandpaper should at least give a temporary benefit?

I take it my box showed up down there?

i really can't see much if any glazing but something causing the slip. would rough paper be better?
yes your box showed up, thanks much. thought i pm'd ya. sorry

 

[67L36Driver]

C5?


For cast iron shoes and steel drum (most common), use 120 or 160 dry paper.

For friction material lined shoes, I just dunno.

Brake -Kleen could be good. Just don't wash out the drum bearing.

 

[Frogfarmer]

If the drum shows signs of heat "blue" it may be hard enough the shoes cant get any bite. I would expect to see some glaze all the same. I have been able to dress the clutch shoes but the drums usually require replacement if they have been real hot. After a drum has been too hot they can become brittle and crack leading to worse problems so replace if it shows signs of excessive heat.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

C5?


For cast iron shoes and steel drum (most common), use 120 or 160 dry paper.

For friction material lined shoes, I just dunno.

Brake -Kleen could be good. Just don't wash out the drum bearing.

Yeah it's a c5. I couldn't tell you if it's ci or friction. It s the three shoe setup

 

[jerrycmorrow]

If the drum shows signs of heat "blue" it may be hard enough the shoes cant get any bite. I would expect to see some glaze all the same. I have been able to dress the clutch shoes but the drums usually require replacement if they have been real hot. After a drum has been too hot they can become brittle and crack leading to worse problems so replace if it shows signs of excessive heat.

Not seeing any blue

 

[barneyrb]

How much grease did you put on the bearing when you installed it?

 

[jerrycmorrow]

How much grease did you put on the bearing when you installed it?

just enough to work into the rollers. i think. that could possibly be the problem but haven't had any problems with any of my other saws in that regard. maybe i need to seriously wipe the bearing down too.

 

[67L36Driver]

Just looked at the leftover I have. 3 Shoes of bronze material. Bronze is excellent against steel.

The model 2000 Homie uses the same sort of deal but six shoes. Maybe it is possible to add three more to what you have. Depends on the springs.

Maybe Aaron can answer that question.

Both my C5s will bog down but mostly if I crowd them too hard or have them too lean on the main jet. Actual clutch slip with 17" & .404" don't happen.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Pretty sure my C9 uses the 6 shoe, and I know my 1000 does. They shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

[KarstenDD]

The C5 uses the same spider as a C7, C9, etc. so adding 3 more shoes is a possibility.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Took 120 grit paper after clutch and sprocket. Didnt look bad but look better. Cleaned bar and chain. Sharpened chain. Wiped bearing down, there was no bleeding grease. Will try it tomorrow. We'll see. May have to go with six shoe

 

[jerrycmorrow]

ran the C5 last night. there was marked improvement but when leaning on it it still slipped. has anyone ever actually added shoes to the 3 shoe setup? wondering how close in wear the shoes have to be. i can envision that if there is much difference the "better" shoes will engage first but wondering if the more worn shoes will actually engage. since its the centrifugal force thats forcing the shoes against the cup i tend to think so. but totally needing some others' thoughts before i spend the bucks. thanks, jerry

 

[67L36Driver]

All three shoes slide independently so different degrees of wear shouldn't make a difference. Spring rate (tension) may be different for the six shoe clutch.



Why don't you be the test subject (victim).:msp_sneaky:

I can send you three more shoes or the whole clutch.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

All three shoes slide independently so different degrees of wear shouldn't make a difference. Spring rate (tension) may be different for the six shoe clutch.



Why don't you be the test subject (victim).:msp_sneaky:

I can send you three more shoes or the whole clutch.

anyone got an ipl for the 6-shoe system for comparison of spring number? i'm thinking that six shoes pushing against the spring may allow earlier and easier contact. but?
yeah, go ahead and send me the three shoes. better yet, just send the clutch if you don't need it.
a slipping clutch is just not acceptable. i'm sposed to be able to lean on this saw; hasn't happened though so what good is it?
just call me the "VICTIM".
let me know what i owe ya.

 

[67L36Driver]

anyone got an ipl for the 6-shoe system for comparison of spring number? i'm thinking that six shoes pushing against the spring may allow earlier and easier contact. but?
yeah, go ahead and send me the three shoes. better yet, just send the clutch if you don't need it.
a slipping clutch is just not acceptable. i'm sposed to be able to lean on this saw; hasn't happened though so what good is it?
just call me the "VICTIM".
let me know what i owe ya.

Hang loose. Checkin' the IPLs......................................................................... (I have a 2000).

Spring for both C5 and 2000 is 55123C. Shoe for both is 55076. Spider is 58646-1 for both.


I can get the clutch mailed Monday. Going to Frankenmuth, Mich. in the morning for a funeral.

 

[Naked Arborist]

just call me the "VICTIM".
let me know what i owe ya.

 

[Steve NW WI]

All three shoes slide independently so different degrees of wear shouldn't make a difference. Spring rate (tension) may be different for the six shoe clutch.



Why don't you be the test subject (victim).:msp_sneaky:

I can send you three more shoes or the whole clutch.

Carl, I think he needs all 6, the 3 shoes are longer, and the other shoes for the 6 won't fit between em. (I'm relying on my decidedly non-photographic memory, though.)

My 2 running C's (5 and 9) and my 1000 all stall out normally, I'm starting to wonder what Jerr has done to hop up that C-5 of his

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Carl, I think he needs all 6, the 3 shoes are longer, and the other shoes for the 6 won't fit between em. (I'm relying on my decidedly non-photographic memory, though.)

My 2 running C's (5 and 9) and my 1000 all stall out normally, I'm starting to wonder what Jerr has done to hop up that C-5 of his

steve, i'm looking at a pic of a 3 shoe on the bay and it appears that all 6 shoes will fit. we'll see when i get home. you say your's stall; does that mean the clutch slips? or the engine bogs? believe me when i say that even though i put new rings on this thing i'm still not happy with the gap between ring ends. just sayin. may eventually go back and spring for some oversize rings just to see what that'll accomplish.