Dangerous barber chair felling ash infected with emerald ash borer

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@northmanlogging @catbuster - Need to reevaluate my ash falling qualifications. Yesterday:

Rotate the picture to the left until the trees in the background are vertical to get a better perspective of the actual lean of this storm downed ash. 1650191982407.png

I stuck my cutting buddy's prized 1010S while trying to make a small face. I went about freeing it with his similarly prized PM800 with an intent to make a deep face to give more momentum with the hope to clear the 1010S and to make room for a wedge to hold the cut open until the 800 was out of the cut - stuck the 800 while reaching for a wedge - I cut too far and I moved too slow. Oddly (and thankfully) while trying unsuccessfully to wedge the 800 free, the 1010S became loose enough to extract. That event was just a ploy to entice me to proceed - the tree rolled during the back cut and stuck a third saw. No damage to the saws. My swelled ego was deflated a bit.

This ash was sound. I also noted three other fair size ash leafing out. All in the same small area. Hopefully the EAB overlooked them.

Happy Easter,

Ron
 
First, I don't consider myself an "expert" qualified to really teach anything, just someone who has dealt with this unique situation and developed a plan that has worked for decades. Had some nasty surprises along the way as well....ended up doing this:

I've been felling ash like that for years and years Two things I do is first ignore the experts who have never done much of them and resort to test book answers designed for pine and healthy hardwoods. That will get u hurt. First I clean the root flares, I do a face cut 10-15 percent of the tree diameter, I bore cut from the face taking out at least 2/3rds of the hinge and take out as much of the heart as I can from the front but don't break thru to the sides or back just yet. REASON is too much hinge promotes the barber chair. So less is better but absolutely need ENOUGH to direct the tree.. It's a balance only experience can give. I then bore cut from the side (sides if its a larger than 30 inch tree ) in the "game of logging" style leaving just enough hinge to direct the tree and a little hold wood in the back so the tree doesn't go just yet. Using this "game of logging approach allows you to carefully and thoughtfully bore cut and "size" the hinges before releasing the tree, a critical point as yet again too much hinge promotes the barber chain and too little is dangerous. On the large "dead" sometime add a wedge during that process so the tree doesn't "crush" and pinch your saw. Step back...evaluate, make damn sure u have a clear escape route away from where things might come tumbling down from the dead branches above. Once the escape plan is internalized, release the tree and escape...fast.

I'll post a couple of videos that kind of show what I've been doing and one in particular shows why

First Here were some I did last weekend that were barber chairs wanting to happen:
 
In this one I didn't bore cut from the side as it wasn't a leaner and figured I could just cut fast enough. Cost me. But you can see the "pull" and if that was a full hinge , and "thick" you can see either a pull or even a barber chair about to happen.
 
Had the time to do a step by step, and as close to a "how to" as I'll ever do because EVERY tree is different, and it's very hard to put the "judgement" into a spec as some trees have a different character than others so I don't believe a one way fits all is practical. For the part time feller ( punny right) hire someone on those dangerous ash trees is my recommendation,

TWO area's in particular need focus, how to do a "plunge" or bore cut. And the decision on how much hinge is required to direct the tree but not "pull" or barber chair. Neither of those two subjects are covered in my video's both are critical to the safety and success of what I do. Hopefully someone can "explain" or come up with a way to convey those two subjects. I freely admit I haven't and for that reason don't see my video's as a true "how to" , but as simply documenting what I did on those tree's vs. how and why.

 
This one a real heavy lean, standing dead but stiff strong but very brittle:

I don't know this guy but he has done videos at a saw shop near me... Shokan, NY. I watched some of his build videos in the past. To a large degree his woods look like my woods and his fields remind me of where I used to hunt woodchucks in the Catskills. ;)
 
@northmanlogging @catbuster - Need to reevaluate my ash falling qualifications. Yesterday:

Rotate the picture to the left until the trees in the background are vertical to get a better perspective of the actual lean of this storm downed ash. View attachment 981877

I stuck my cutting buddy's prized 1010S while trying to make a small face. I went about freeing it with his similarly prized PM800 with an intent to make a deep face to give more momentum with the hope to clear the 1010S and to make room for a wedge to hold the cut open until the 800 was out of the cut - stuck the 800 while reaching for a wedge - I cut too far and I moved too slow. Oddly (and thankfully) while trying unsuccessfully to wedge the 800 free, the 1010S became loose enough to extract. That event was just a ploy to entice me to proceed - the tree rolled during the back cut and stuck a third saw. No damage to the saws. My swelled ego was deflated a bit.

This ash was sound. I also noted three other fair size ash leafing out. All in the same small area. Hopefully the EAB overlooked them.

Happy Easter,

Ron
never said you were perfect lol, but you do show humility which is more often a sign of competence, Claiming to have never made a mistake is red flags in my book.
 
weimedog, I enjoyed going through your videos. Looks like most of what you were cutting are not as decayed as most of the stuff I have been cutting this season, exceptions of course like the one you cut with the peeling bark. In my limited experience when they are fresher (like the one I cut yesterday) you can get them to move quite a bit much like the leaner you featured. They can still split easily as you know which is why I was pointing the OP to study up on hinges - I think you gave good advice on that subject and showed some excellent examples. I also agree wholeheartedly that there is a learning curve that you have to experience and survive. There is a point in time where I find they are really fun to cut then they seem to get more dangerous by the minute. A transition that I don't always discern.
Ron
 
The ones I did in Kentucky were a mix of standing dead with a little integrity and just a decomposed punk tree. They both scare me a bit. But at least with the "punky" ones the chance of a barber chair are less when using "standard" technique as the hinge just breaks & doesn't propagate a crack at the back edge. I do remember years back a "punk" tree broke about 30ft up and folded back at me as the tree went down. A wake up moment. The ones with a little integrity are the worst for me, brittle so the complete hinge is a recipe for a Barber chair as when the tree goes and the hinge bends then at the back "edge" it pulls and can start the fracture that goes right up the tree. Took once or twice experiencing that to both brown the shorts and start changing until I came up with what i do. Take away was too much hinge = issue about to happen on Ash and even hickory. Fortunately then I was still quick enough to survive :) ( Note I think in a couple of my video you could see the effect with too much root flare, same thing happens in the middle of the tree if the hinge is there and thick where it has enough stiffness to "pop" the tree )
 
The ones I did in Kentucky were a mix of standing dead with a little integrity and just a decomposed punk tree. They both scare me a bit. But at least with the "punky" ones the chance of a barber chair are less when using "standard" technique as the hinge just breaks & doesn't propagate a crack at the back edge. I do remember years back a "punk" tree broke about 30ft up and folded back at me as the tree went down. A wake up moment. The ones with a little integrity are the worst for me, brittle so the complete hinge is a recipe for a Barber chair as when the tree goes and the hinge bends then at the back "edge" it pulls and can start the fracture that goes right up the tree. Took once or twice experiencing that to both brown the shorts and start changing until I came up with what i do. Take away was too much hinge = issue about to happen on Ash and even hickory. Fortunately then I was still quick enough to survive :) ( Note I think in a couple of my video you could see the effect with too much root flare, same thing happens in the middle of the tree if the hinge is there and thick where it has enough stiffness to "pop" the tree )

Post from a different thread of one of my experiences:
... .

I recently cut this one with the lean. First movement and the top (in the foreground) broke off about 15' up; it landed just feet from the stump leaving a stem that I had to wedge over.

View attachment 955303

Ron
Ron
 
I went to check one this weekend.
The bark around the whole base is loose.
Not sure what to do as it is still holding some large branches pretty far up.
Need to see if I can get a rope up to make sure it does not snap towards neighbors house, though it is far enough away it would lay partially into his lawn.

This one is perplexing me, lean is in the right direction, but obviously this one is dead and rotten.
I have a few, this is the only one that could go into the neighbors space,

Had poison Ivy too, but cut the root before it could bud.

I figure, based on the way the other trees were, whatever branch I try to pull down through the snatch block will be the only one that is still holding strong..........But if I can get the bigger branches down, then the fall will be pretty easy with a plunge cut after removing the bark.

Planning still in progress....
 
@northmanlogging @catbuster - Need to reevaluate my ash falling qualifications. Yesterday:

Rotate the picture to the left until the trees in the background are vertical to get a better perspective of the actual lean of this storm downed ash. View attachment 981877

I stuck my cutting buddy's prized 1010S while trying to make a small face. I went about freeing it with his similarly prized PM800 with an intent to make a deep face to give more momentum with the hope to clear the 1010S and to make room for a wedge to hold the cut open until the 800 was out of the cut - stuck the 800 while reaching for a wedge - I cut too far and I moved too slow. Oddly (and thankfully) while trying unsuccessfully to wedge the 800 free, the 1010S became loose enough to extract. That event was just a ploy to entice me to proceed - the tree rolled during the back cut and stuck a third saw. No damage to the saws. My swelled ego was deflated a bit.

This ash was sound. I also noted three other fair size ash leafing out. All in the same small area. Hopefully the EAB overlooked them.

Happy Easter,

Ron
"Hopefully the EAB overlooked them."
Don't count on it!
 
D. Douglas Dent, The Art of Timber Falling, though its book form and getting harder to source as Mr. Dent has unfortunately vacated this plane.

or easier to get Work Safe BC's course on timber falling, it should be available on the YouTube.
We perhaps should not start with an intentional swing dutchman lol. Dent is the man for tricky felling and potential vertical conifer hazards.
 
Last 4 Ash I did with plunge cuts and got 3 to line up prefect.
One was a hanger, but that was due to location and me not being a climber.
Only 2 more big ones to go, Those will need to wait a few weeks.
Missed20220430_120432.jpg
 
First, I don't consider myself an "expert" qualified to really teach anything, just someone who has dealt with this unique situation and developed a plan that has worked for decades. Had some nasty surprises along the way as well....ended up doing this:

I've been felling ash like that for years and years Two things I do is first ignore the experts who have never done much of them and resort to test book answers designed for pine and healthy hardwoods. That will get u hurt. First I clean the root flares, I do a face cut 10-15 percent of the tree diameter, I bore cut from the face taking out at least 2/3rds of the hinge and take out as much of the heart as I can from the front but don't break thru to the sides or back just yet. REASON is too much hinge promotes the barber chair. So less is better but absolutely need ENOUGH to direct the tree.. It's a balance only experience can give. I then bore cut from the side (sides if its a larger than 30 inch tree ) in the "game of logging" style leaving just enough hinge to direct the tree and a little hold wood in the back so the tree doesn't go just yet. Using this "game of logging approach allows you to carefully and thoughtfully bore cut and "size" the hinges before releasing the tree, a critical point as yet again too much hinge promotes the barber chain and too little is dangerous. On the large "dead" sometime add a wedge during that process so the tree doesn't "crush" and pinch your saw. Step back...evaluate, make damn sure u have a clear escape route away from where things might come tumbling down from the dead branches above. Once the escape plan is internalized, release the tree and escape...fast.

I'll post a couple of videos that kind of show what I've been doing and one in particular shows why

First Here were some I did last weekend that were barber chairs wanting to happen:
 
I’m the same way. Never forgetting to learn with every experience. I do a similar technique as yours but got busted up on here for it. I have finished felling my 59 ash tree project and had 1 short barber chair. My fault because it was a small 18” ash that I just used an open face notch on. Anyway I’ve got a buddy down the road about 6 miles who has had 4 barber chairs in 2-days felling. So now I’m over there helping him. The tree he has have a lot of dead limbs that fall randomly and it’s a terrible risk. I’m a firefighter/NREMT and work for The DOT. We have so many dead ashes along the roadside it’s not even funny and not enoufmgj money to tackle Them all. We had a guy in a crew
Get struck by an 8” Limb just last Monday. After a trip in the ambulance to the er he is just sore. Glanced off
his hard hat and into his shoulder. Thanks for sharing your working experience. I am an chainsaw instructor and every class I seem to learn from someone. When teaching someone to use a saw for the first time it’s amazing the things one needs to know to stay safe. I also learn some people just can not be taught. They are hard headed. Anyway thanks and stay safe.
 
I took the USDA chainsaw traing a couple of weeks ago and was surprised that the cutting technique was almost a complete copy of Walt's cutting style .
Every cut is a plunge or bore cut and trim the stump on the apex of the notch.
Where I cut we are not saving the log for timber and so we teach some other cuts but it was a great experience and I learned some good planning techniques for every tree.
 
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