DHW sidearm...

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rackmup

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We just started with our CB 6048 in October and it has been completely flawless. Just recently, we started having issues with our hot water. About 2 weeks ago she ran out of hot water but i wrote it off to her running laundry all day, dishwasher and then trying to take a shower. I got home an hour later and had to take a lukewarm shower. This morning she ran a load of laundry and our daughter took a bath and it looks like we are going to be out of water already this morning.

I put in a brand new 50 gal electric, albeit a cheap water heater, in October during the install. I did have to remove the anode rod because of the way it was configured to plumb the sidearm. our water is not terribly hard but i wonder if were getting some of that slimy build-up in the heater.

I am running the furnace at 185 degrees and I have the 009 transfer pump on the furnace.
 
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I just did some research on here and it appears we are having decent luck. My wife cannot grasp the concept of conservation so I am guessing we are doing well considering we have had the breaker off since October 15. Her showers are melt your skin hot so I am sure it hits the hot water hard.

As it turns out we had plenty of water for showers this morning so it is probably nothing to worry about.
 
rackmup said:
I just did some research on here and it appears we are having decent luck. My wife cannot grasp the concept of conservation so I am guessing we are doing well considering we have had the breaker off since October 15. Her showers are melt your skin hot so I am sure it hits the hot water hard.

As it turns out we had plenty of water for showers this morning so it is probably nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

I have the same setup as you, It will take an hour or more to recover sometimes if you really put a hit on the hot water. I can count on one hand how many times we've run out of hot water in the last 5 years, and the excessive laundry has always been the culprit!
 
To me your sidearm looks to be a bit small. It wouldn't hurt to insulate the upper portion.

The previous poster is right about laundry----a top load washer uses LOTS OF WATER.
 
HD-tech-NH said:
has anyone tried using a small plate style heat exchanger for DHW?


Maybe not this small but a decent example:


UL Certified 20 Plate SS304 Heat Exchanger Free Ship - eBay (item 350425061851 end time Feb-20-11 23:54:15 PST)
Click to expand...

A friend of ours has one set up for his DHW and had to intsall a mixing valve to let a little cold water in after the HE. He was getting around 150°-165° water in the tank.
What I am trying to say is, YES they work great, and he has NEVER ran out of hot water........
 
valekbrothers said:
A friend of ours has one set up for his DHW and had to intsall a mixing valve to let a little cold water in after the HE. He was getting around 150°-165° water in the tank.
What I am trying to say is, YES they work great, and he has NEVER ran out of hot water........
Click to expand...


Kind of what I thought. I am planning on trying this setup this summer. They are cheeper than a side arm too. Does your buddy use a pump to circulate? 007? and what size exchanger?
 
valekbrothers said:
A friend of ours has one set up for his DHW and had to intsall a mixing valve to let a little cold water in after the HE. He was getting around 150°-165° water in the tank.
What I am trying to say is, YES they work great, and he has NEVER ran out of hot water........
Click to expand...

A plate exhanger will definitely keep up with the hot water better than a sidearm! Only problem with plate exchangers is hard water and you need to run another pump, my hard water issue steered me to the side arm setup. Mine was free since I built it myself with scrap 2" copper I had kickin around, not much to them.
 
Blazin said:
Only problem with plate exchangers is hard water and you need to run another pump.
Click to expand...

I don't have a second pump in my system. MY OWB water runs to the plate exchanger first, then to the sidearm, then to the exchanger in my furnace plenum. I didn't know which system work best when I installed my OWB - so I installed both as I only wanted to go it once. The plate exchanger heats the water as it enters the water heater and the sidearm keeps it "HOT" once it is inside the tank. I can shut off the sidearm flow and it turns out we only need the sidearm when we go away for a weekend. If we shut the sidearm off it takes a couple of days for the water in the tank to cool down below a reasonable shower temperature.
 
oneoldbanjo said:
I don't have a second pump in my system. MY OWB water runs to the plate exchanger first, then to the sidearm, then to the exchanger in my furnace plenum. I didn't know which system work best when I installed my OWB - so I installed both as I only wanted to go it once. The plate exchanger heats the water as it enters the water heater and the sidearm keeps it "HOT" once it is inside the tank. I can shut off the sidearm flow and it turns out we only need the sidearm when we go away for a weekend. If we shut the sidearm off it takes a couple of days for the water in the tank to cool down below a reasonable shower temperature.
Click to expand...

No circulator on the water tank, the side arm must be doing the convection then?
 
Blazin said:
No circulator on the water tank, the side arm must be doing the convection then?
Click to expand...

I don't understand your comment. The plate exchanger is plumbed into the domestic water line and all water entering the hot water tank passes through the plate exchanger - the supply pressure of the domestic water flowing into the tank pushes the water through the plate exchanger. The sidearm is plumbed to the drain outlet and T&P hole on the side of the water heater - and does work by convection/thermosiphon. The domestic water flowing through the plate exchanger has to flow into the water tank before it can ever reach the sidearm.
 
oneoldbanjo said:
I don't understand your comment. The plate exchanger is plumbed into the domestic water line and all water entering the hot water tank passes through the plate exchanger - the supply pressure of the domestic water flowing into the tank pushes the water through the plate exchanger. The sidearm is plumbed to the drain outlet and T&P hole on the side of the water heater - and does work by convection/thermosiphon.
Click to expand...

Got ya now! The only way I've seen a plate exchanger on a DHW tank was with a circulator on the DHW tank circulating the water from the drain to the blow off like the sidearm setup principal.
 
The way my Plate Exchanger system is set up is for the OWB water to flow through the Plate Exchanger 24/7, and the domestic water passes through only when somone uses water from the "HOT" valves. When there is no hot water flowing out of the tank then there is not heat exhange taking place. As it turns out the Plate Exchanger gives us more hot water than we would ever need, and I really don't need the sidearm.

We have public treated water that is a "10" on hardness - so we have a water softener treat the domestic water before it reaches the plate exchanger. We also use the softened water when we fill the OWB.
 
oneoldbanjo said:
The way my Plate Exchanger system is set up is for the OWB water to flow through the Plate Exchanger 24/7, and the domestic water passes through only when somone uses water from the "HOT" valves. When there is no hot water flowing out of the tank then there is not heat exhange taking place. As it turns out the Plate Exchanger gives us more hot water than we would ever need, and I really don't need the sidearm.

We have public treated water that is a "10" on hardness - so we have a water softener treat the domestic water before it reaches the plate exchanger. We also use the softened water when we fill the OWB.
Click to expand...

The only thing I heard about using another pump on the DHW tank was it speeds up the response/recovery time. If the extra pump is'nt needed, better yet! I do need to look into a water softener also, I clean out the sidearm once a season and it's amazing the crud that builds up that quick.
 
I use a 10 plate HX (just like the one HD-Tech linked too in his post) that is in the domestic hot water line AFTER the tank. I don't understand why folks think they need to heat the water "before" the tank. IMO it is a total waste of btu's IF you install the plate. The plate gives you an "on demand" hot water system that frankly.....I have never exhausted. Hot showers, wash clothes, dish washer......seriously, you could stay in the shower all day at hot as you can take it water and never run out. My HWH basically becomes a cold water storage tank. My boiler water pump circulates 24/7.
BTW, yes you will need a mixing/tempering valve to lower the water temp for safety.
 
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