Did I accidentally kill the trees?

[cutter44752]

Last summer I went around to some pine trees (mostly 40-60 ft. approx.) that were covered with vines (Virginia creeper, poison ivy) and tapped the circumference(s) with a handax…the vines died but unfortunately so did about half the trees! (this fall)

I didn't swing hard, so I find it hard to believe that this was the cause of their demise but I can't think of anything else that would explain their simultaneous deaths…anyone have any ideas? (the trees have been there for a couple decades but all started to die at the same time.)

Please tell me I didn't do it!

 

[(WLL)]

post us some pics

 

[buzz sawyer]

Last summer I went around to some pine trees (mostly 40-60 ft. approx.) that were covered with vines (Virginia creeper, poison ivy) and tapped the circumference(s) with a handax…the vines died but unfortunately so did about half the trees! (this fall)

I didn't swing hard, so I find it hard to believe that this was the cause of their demise but I can't think of anything else that would explain their simultaneous deaths…anyone have any ideas? (the trees have been there for a couple decades but all started to die at the same time.)

Please tell me I didn't do it!

How about some pictures? Tapped? Are you saying you cut through the bark? If so, how deep and how many cuts? Trees get their nutrients through the outermost part of the trunk - just beneath the bark.

 

[treeseer]

tapped the circumference(s) with a handax…the vines died but unfortunately so did about half the trees! (this fall)
Please tell me I didn't do it!

Sorry; you are a murderer. Your verb choice gave you away--"tapped"

The 2 vines you mention are symbiotic ornamentals--why'd you wanna kill em?

 

[(WLL)]

u should of asked before u cut,hope they are your trees

 

[buzz sawyer]

If the trees were anywhere close to my house or where kids play, I would have cut the poison ivy, otherwise I'd leave it alone. The creeper looks nice in the Fall.

 

[treemandan]

Is it possible the tree were allready dead and you thought they were alive cause all the vines?

 

[pdqdl]

...The 2 vines you mention are symbiotic ornamentals--why'd you wanna kill em?

Oh, come on!

Since when is poison ivy ever considered "an ornamental" ? And although virginia creeper is certainly symbiotic, the broad definition of symbiosis includes parasitism. I would judge virginia creeper to be a facultative parasite on any tree, since it relies on the tree for structure and support, it deprives the tree of some sunlight, and it contributes NOTHING to the trees benefit.

I can think of lots of reasons to cut out either of the vines. But yes, it sounds like he might have killed the trees.

So much information is missing. Pictures, responses from the original post,... I suspect we'll never really know the answer.

 

[shadow745]

According to where you live those trees could have been having issues due to the drought that plagued alot of the country. I live in central NC and I've seen lots of trees having issues relating to the drought. Later!

 

[S Mc]

Oh, come on!

Since when is poison ivy ever considered "an ornamental" ?

I TOTALLY agree with PDQDL...I would NEVER have thought to call poison ivy an ornamental. (But that's just me.) Unless you want to consider the flaming red, jewel-like rash appearing upon your body as ornamental.

I also would have called Virginia creeper more of an epiphytical growth as it uses the tree for structural support but supplies its own nutrients. I believe it can become so thick as to block sunlight (and therefore inhibit photosynthesis) so I could see how it would "strangle" out growth. To be considered symbiotic I thought nutrients or benefits needed to be exchanged; I was not aware of this with Virginia Creeper.

The growth rings on conifers are active for several years. So unless those were more than just "taps" and progressed all the way around the tree, (handaxes are sharp and he did say circumference) I'm having a hard time seeing how they, in and by themselves, would have killed the conifers. Treemandan might have something there in the fact that the trees might have already been dead/dying prior to the infamous vine removal. What kind of pine trees were these?

Long story short...pictures would be nice including that of the allegedly tapped (whacked) area.



Sylvia

 

[treeseer]

symbiotic in the broadest sense i admit. these vines seldom overtop so lower the center of gravity thus stabilize. PI very ornamental in fall, glossy leaf in spring, hairy holdfasts year round...

ok i usually kill it in most populated areas too.

hatchet wrong tool use lopper next time

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Last summer I went around to some pine trees (mostly 40-60 ft. approx.) that were covered with vines (Virginia creeper, poison ivy) and tapped the circumference(s) with a handax…the vines died but unfortunately so did about half the trees! (this fall)

I didn't swing hard, so I find it hard to believe that this was the cause of their demise but I can't think of anything else that would explain their simultaneous deaths…anyone have any ideas? (the trees have been there for a couple decades but all started to die at the same time.)

Please tell me I didn't do it!

You didn't do it.

It was the other guy in the mirror.

 

[smokechase II]

In leu of pics

Give us some stats.

# of trees total _____

on about ____ acres

# of trees _______ that were attacked visciously by a hatchet man

# of trees _______ That were not (checking your math skills here)

# of trees _______ that died that were visciously by hatchet man

# of trees _______ that did not die that were visciously by hatchet man

# of trees _______ that died that were not tortured in any way

# of trees _______ that did not die that were not tortured in any way.

If these stats don't seem important, we could go into doing the above by three different size classes.

==============

If these stats are going to take too much time. That's OK. Murderers like you probably kill Eastern Diamondbacks with hatchets too.

 

[pdqdl]

Symbiotic doesn't really have any highly technical meaning. It is latin for "living together". There are lots of different spins on different types of symbiosis. Fundamentally, we are symbiotes with everything on the planet, if you draw your inclusion circle large enough.

Treeseer, I wish you would work as hard at being sensible as you do at protecting the interests of anything green.

Some green things need to go away. For a fellow that likes trees, I can't imagine that you would encourage virginia creeper choking them out, which certainly does happen.

 

[ropensaddle]

Symbiotic doesn't really have any highly technical meaning. It is latin for "living together". There are lots of different spins on different types of symbiosis. Fundamentally, we are symbiotes with everything on the planet, if you draw your inclusion circle large enough.

Treeseer, I wish you would work as hard at being sensible as you do at protecting the interests of anything green.

Some green things need to go away. For a fellow that likes trees, I can't imagine that you would encourage virginia creeper choking them out, which certainly does happen.

+1 and even if it does not choke it out it shades the trunk many time
enough to cause the trunk to stay moist to a point armillaria set in!

 

[treeseer]

Sorry guys I've surveyed properties with dozens of trees supporting va creeper vines and not one shows any sign of overtopping now or soon. That owner gave specific instructions to let them be and I agreed. In time if the vine shades the tree crown the vine can be pruned; not a hard job for a tree guy.

Creeper vines are not thick with leaves at the base so the idea they would foment fungal infection is hard to grasp.

I've tried whacking PI at the base without herbicide on the cuts and it just comes back stronger. The roots pull out pretty easily if the soil is moist.

 

[ropensaddle]

Sorry guys I've surveyed properties with dozens of trees supporting va creeper vines and not one shows any sign of overtopping now or soon. That owner gave specific instructions to let them be and I agreed. In time if the vine shades the tree crown the vine can be pruned; not a hard job for a tree guy.

Creeper vines are not thick with leaves at the base so the idea they would foment fungal infection is hard to grasp.

I've tried whacking PI at the base without herbicide on the cuts and it just comes back stronger. The roots pull out pretty easily if the soil is moist.

Your first post mentioned both pi and creeper I have seen
them so thick at the base that the outter bark was merely
vine. I personally don't care for either creep or pi on my trees
I would rather have musquidine at least they have benefit!
+1 on the ivy coming back with vengeance but at least it
is not four inch dia and engulfing the tree so a little
more manageable.

 

[treeseer]

I have seen
them so thick at the base that the outter bark was merely
vine. ...
I would rather have musquidine at least they have benefit!

yes they make grapes but they also twine (strangle) not creep.

never saw creeper that wide; that would be an issue. 1 or 2 trunks" more typical in IL and NC.

 

[ropensaddle]

yes they make grapes but they also twine (strangle) not creep.

never saw creeper that wide; that would be an issue. 1 or 2 trunks" more typical in IL and NC.

:sword: Point taken the thing is all of them have their place
I prefer to trollis the musquidine on wire and away from my
yard trees the creeper and poison ivy has no place in my yard
but you won't find me attacking it in my ruff!