wvlogger
Rock trucker
if you are going to go diesel go with a 96 F-35 ford with a 7.3, or a 2000 to 06 dodge with a Cummins.
Diesel
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CBRForest
ArboristSite Lurker
I have a late '05 Dodge 2500 4wd with the Cummins and six speed manual. I love the engine, but will never buy another Chrysler product. They switched transmissions during the '05 model year and went to a Mercedes tranny. There is nothing wrong with the transmission, but they didn't specify a proper final drive ratio. As a consequence, the engine spun much fast than previous model years for the same speed down the road. It was very uncomfortable at highway speeds.
The expensive fix was taller tires. Considering that the original equipment so-called off road tires were useless anywhere but on pavement, it wasn't all wasted money, but it shouldn't have been necessary. I hear they fixed the final drive ratio in the '07 models, but that didn't do me or any other late '05 manual tranny buyers any good. We got royally screwed.
My model year does not have locking hubs. They are fixed, and there is/was no factory option. The front axle turns all the time. This is a major PITA. Not only is it a serious waste of fuel, but it essentially precludes the use of four wheel low to prevent having to slip the clutch during tight backing maneuvers with a trailer on dry pacement or hard ground. To make things worse, idle speed in reverse is actually faster than in first gear. It is much too fast for safe backing in close quarters.
Dodges come with a useless limited slip differential. It does not use clutches like most units. As a consequence, there is no limited slip function unless the vehicle is already moving too fast to be useful. Starting from a stop on a muddy woods road is just the same as a regular open differential. There is no limited slip function even when creeping. About the only thing it is good for is on snowy road, once you are already moving. Then it actually functions.
I get 17 MPG running light on our back roads. Towing, I get 12 to 13. I am no kid, and I baby my truck. Fixes are very expensive on these things, as others have mentioned. Fuel mileage is very emission control specific on these engines. What Joe-Bob gets in his 15 year old Ram has no relevance to what you can expect from a new truck.
If you run in really cold weather, you will need to add an anti-gelling additive to the tank. The rest of the diesel fuel "conditioners" are expensive snake oil. I never use any. The sole exception would be a biocide, if the truck was going to sit for a long time (months) without being used.
There are a bunch of other things, like how almost every one of them develops a pull to the right after a couple of thousand miles, how they gave a manual transmission four wheel drive vehicle a foot operated emergency brake (beyond stupid, except for people with three feet). Try feathering a foot operated emergency brake when you are stopped on a slippery slop and trying to start back up again. Did I mention the limited slip differential doesn't work in that scenario?
Never again.
The expensive fix was taller tires. Considering that the original equipment so-called off road tires were useless anywhere but on pavement, it wasn't all wasted money, but it shouldn't have been necessary. I hear they fixed the final drive ratio in the '07 models, but that didn't do me or any other late '05 manual tranny buyers any good. We got royally screwed.
My model year does not have locking hubs. They are fixed, and there is/was no factory option. The front axle turns all the time. This is a major PITA. Not only is it a serious waste of fuel, but it essentially precludes the use of four wheel low to prevent having to slip the clutch during tight backing maneuvers with a trailer on dry pacement or hard ground. To make things worse, idle speed in reverse is actually faster than in first gear. It is much too fast for safe backing in close quarters.
Dodges come with a useless limited slip differential. It does not use clutches like most units. As a consequence, there is no limited slip function unless the vehicle is already moving too fast to be useful. Starting from a stop on a muddy woods road is just the same as a regular open differential. There is no limited slip function even when creeping. About the only thing it is good for is on snowy road, once you are already moving. Then it actually functions.
I get 17 MPG running light on our back roads. Towing, I get 12 to 13. I am no kid, and I baby my truck. Fixes are very expensive on these things, as others have mentioned. Fuel mileage is very emission control specific on these engines. What Joe-Bob gets in his 15 year old Ram has no relevance to what you can expect from a new truck.
If you run in really cold weather, you will need to add an anti-gelling additive to the tank. The rest of the diesel fuel "conditioners" are expensive snake oil. I never use any. The sole exception would be a biocide, if the truck was going to sit for a long time (months) without being used.
There are a bunch of other things, like how almost every one of them develops a pull to the right after a couple of thousand miles, how they gave a manual transmission four wheel drive vehicle a foot operated emergency brake (beyond stupid, except for people with three feet). Try feathering a foot operated emergency brake when you are stopped on a slippery slop and trying to start back up again. Did I mention the limited slip differential doesn't work in that scenario?
Never again.
D.Marsh
ArboristSite Member
I own a 99 Dodge 3500 4x4 Cummins. Love the truck and engine. Best damned pickup I've ever run. Mileage is comparable stock. I've got a Bullydog Torquedog installed on mine, and I run it on the economy setting. I also have a tow shift kit installed in the tranny. I'm also running straight pipe exaust, opened up to 4" just rear of the engine compartment, out to a 5" stinger (Don't do this less you like loud trucks) I average 25 MPG (Calculated, not from onboard system) So far I've never needed to turn the torquedog up to pull anything, but its always nice to know I can flip a switch and jump my power output up 90HP and 100ft/lbs over stock with the flip of a switch. (According to Bullydog, and I'm sure my mileage would plummet if I did, but sometimes you can't have everything) True, maintainence costs will be higher for parts and labor than a gas engine, but I've never had a 24 valve Cummins last less than 500,000 miles, as long as it was maintained properly. The only maintainence issues I've had personally have been replacing the power steering pump (My own fault, long story) and I had to replace the tie rods. Both already had nearly 200,000 miles on them though, your mileage may and will vary. The rest has all been general maintainence. Brakes, fluid/filter changes, etc. etc.
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loadthestove
ArboristSite Guru
Its plain and simple,If you have a need for a diesel then by all means go for it.
If you just want you ,they are not worth it.with new epa engines mileage is not much better than a gasser .diesel is much higher than gasoline,plus maintenece cost are much higher.I have an 06 f 350 that I love.btu if I dindt own my fifth wheel camper I wouldnt own a diesel truck.
If you just want you ,they are not worth it.with new epa engines mileage is not much better than a gasser .diesel is much higher than gasoline,plus maintenece cost are much higher.I have an 06 f 350 that I love.btu if I dindt own my fifth wheel camper I wouldnt own a diesel truck.
mooseracing
ArboristSite Operative
I wanted a diesel for longevity since I keep my vehicles for a long time. I also wanted a mechanical one because everything on them is alot cheaper to repair.
I ended up with a N/A 7.3. It is a 4x4 Crew Cab and I net about 17MPG on the highway, which is better than my 10MPG on my gas truck.
The first hard start I had was the other day, but it was also only 2F outside.
I also am working on a setup to filter and burn WMO at about 40% with diesel to cut my fuel costs.
I ended up with a N/A 7.3. It is a 4x4 Crew Cab and I net about 17MPG on the highway, which is better than my 10MPG on my gas truck.
The first hard start I had was the other day, but it was also only 2F outside.
I also am working on a setup to filter and burn WMO at about 40% with diesel to cut my fuel costs.
I've got an '03 Dodge 2500. It gets between 20-21mpg. Love the cummins and have 175,000 miles on it. Hate the wear and tear the heavy engine does to the front end. I've had the front end rebuilt twice (that's a Dodge for you). Diesel around here is $.15 higher normally. Oil changes are more expensive.
Besides the higher up front cost of the diesel truck, I think between the maintenance and cost of fuel, you're about even over the life of the vehicle.
Besides the higher up front cost of the diesel truck, I think between the maintenance and cost of fuel, you're about even over the life of the vehicle.
Dan_IN_MN
Addicted to ArboristSite
I found this on YouTube. I don't have anything to do with these guys. I'm not trying to sell anything. Just adding to the topic at hand. I found this to be VERY interesting.
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anymanusa
ArboristSite Guru
that isn't true. Diesel costs more because there is less of it than gasoline to be had from a single barrel of crude and the demand for it is there. Diesel contains more energy than gasoline, and therefore should be higher in cost as well.
OP: chevrolet diesels are the quietest, and the last 8 years or so can get you 400hp and 800 ft-lbs of torque with just a handheld tuner. My diesel gets better mileage on the interstate than my gasser did, but it gets worse city mileage. I love my truck but the operating costs are much higher than gasoline engines. Typically fuel costs 30 cents more per gallon.
I have a 2010 dodge ram 2500 with the 6.7 cummins and I love it. I did do a dpf delete and installed a black max tuner with a 5" exhaust so mine isn't stock but on the road I get 22 to 23mpg and 15 to 16 local. When I change oil and filter it does run me $60 But if you need power you can't compare gas to diesel as they aren't even in the same class.
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
My cousin works for Shell Canada in Sarnia, and we talked about this a while ago.. may be a bit dated but only a couple of years.
It is true you get less out of it than gasoline per barrel, but he said the largest costs are the taxes are higher on diesel fuel in the U.S. and Canada than that of gasoline. He said refining costs are slightly higher to meet U.S. Sulfur content restrictions, but only marginally. But when you refine crude oil, you get both gasoline and diesel out of the same barrel of oil.. but the portion where diesel comes from is also shared with fuel oil. You also get jet fuel, road oil, kerosene other lubricants, etc out of same barrel.
He also told me that diesel and stove oil and furnace oil ... are essentially the same thing - made in same refinery. And in Canada at least compete for the refinery use. He said this kicks the prices up a bit on diesel in the winter months.
In fact he said some farmers burn stove oil in their tractors.. he suggested I do same, think he said I had to add some kind of lubricant to it.. but still worked out close to half the price of diesel at pumps I think.
Hopefully I have remembered this correct for the most part.. but think the above to be fairly accurate.
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
Our experience is the diesel is less.. but that is because we keep them for longer mileage and more years (now we do put money into body renovation).. but works out cheaper than the 2nd gasoline one would.. and you get the diesel power to boot.
If you want to save money with a diesel, then you have to do a lot of mileage, pull a lot of heavy loads and keep them a long time.. but if you do above they do cost a lot less than gasoline in our experience.
I won't buy a newer model diesel again with emissions stuff on it. I hate dumping extra fuel to burn the dpf clean. I would mod it but being a ford I'm scared I'll need warranty again. Personally I love the 12 valve dodges. I really would like a 12 valve in about a 2000 F350 single wheel truck. If you buy oil on sale you can get buy with $35 oil changes in a cummins powered truck. I was doing $50 in my ford this past 2 oil changes. I'm waiting to find oil on sale again to stock up.
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
Just out of curiosity, sent my cousin a text message .. and he replied. As neither one of us text much was interesting that he actually answered.
I asked him about costs.. and to summarize.
At any rate he said Canadian taxes are 26.3 cents per US gallon higher on diesel than on gasoline. (or about 7 cents a liter) that is not total taxes -- just the difference between gasoline and diesel.
He also said that there are some additives in winter gasoline which makes gas cheaper than diesel to produce at this time of year than in summer.. (he did not mention sulfur in this text.. but he did say that was only marginal when we last talked and maybe that has a more efficient process now so maybe that portion of diesel refining cost is not factor any longer).
My son told me that on fill up today, diesel was 2 cents a liter higher than regular gasoline.. so 8 cents a US gallon. It is still cheaper than the medium and high octane gasoline.
Other factors are provincial taxes and transportation (from highest price to lowest price in our country) there is about $1 per gallon variance in price!! That is due to transportation and tax differences.. go figure.
Just checking in our province -- highest and lowest gasoline price in last 24 hours (not sure where to find diesel pricing on internet).. is a low of $3.819 to a high of $4.500 per US gallon.
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indiansprings
Firewood Purveyor
I've had them all, a 95 dodge cummins, a 99 7.3 powerstroke, a 2002 duramax, a 2005 Ford 6.0, and I've finally got smart and went back to gas. After you factor in the up front difference between the diesel and gas, the added maint cost, the general upkeep you will never see any savings. We use out trucks, they're just not commuters, pull livestock trailers, implement trailers, etc, they work for a living.
We've went back to gas and have not missed the smell of diesel on our hands on the floor mats, sometimes hard to find places to fuel on the road, the added batteries etc. Now with the need to add urea to an additional tank on the new ones, they are going to kill the diesel truck market. Looked at a new one the other day, one ton chassis crew cab, no bed, 4x4, sticker was 56k, insane, that was the half the cost of my first house.
With proper gearing, I have seen no difference in towing capacity, but am running 4:11's, it's nice not to have to plug them in, worry about them gelling up, etc.
I'll never go back to diesel.
We've went back to gas and have not missed the smell of diesel on our hands on the floor mats, sometimes hard to find places to fuel on the road, the added batteries etc. Now with the need to add urea to an additional tank on the new ones, they are going to kill the diesel truck market. Looked at a new one the other day, one ton chassis crew cab, no bed, 4x4, sticker was 56k, insane, that was the half the cost of my first house.
With proper gearing, I have seen no difference in towing capacity, but am running 4:11's, it's nice not to have to plug them in, worry about them gelling up, etc.
I'll never go back to diesel.
kd460
ArboristSite Operative
I have a 1997 Dodge Cummins 12 valve, so I am basing my information on that era, but, lets see, Chevy and Ford are rated as "light duty" diesel engines. The Dodge (Cummins) is rated as a "medium duty" diesel engine.
Rated service life of the chevy and ford are 250,000 miles. My Cummins is rated for 500,000 miles.
I always hear about this guy or that guy putting a cummins in a ford or a chevy, but I never hear about anybody pulling their cummins and putting in a ford or a chevy deisel in it's place. I wonder why?
The Cummins is actually "tuned down" so it does not tear up the tranny. They also use those engines in firetrucks, dump trucks, etc. Don't forget, it's an inline 6 cylinder also.
Yes, I bought a cummins with a dodge wrapped around it. Glad I got mine. About 300 hp and 750 ft lbs of torque, and I get 22 mpg's, 14 towing my 5th wheel.
I think I'll keep her a little while longer! Lastly, take a look at this pic and you decide:
Google Image Result for http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/trailers-transportation/108101d1218449279-ford-6-4l-diesel-replacement-connecting-20rod.jpg
Good luck in your decision, KD
Rated service life of the chevy and ford are 250,000 miles. My Cummins is rated for 500,000 miles.
I always hear about this guy or that guy putting a cummins in a ford or a chevy, but I never hear about anybody pulling their cummins and putting in a ford or a chevy deisel in it's place. I wonder why?
The Cummins is actually "tuned down" so it does not tear up the tranny. They also use those engines in firetrucks, dump trucks, etc. Don't forget, it's an inline 6 cylinder also.
Yes, I bought a cummins with a dodge wrapped around it. Glad I got mine. About 300 hp and 750 ft lbs of torque, and I get 22 mpg's, 14 towing my 5th wheel.
I think I'll keep her a little while longer! Lastly, take a look at this pic and you decide:
Google Image Result for http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/trailers-transportation/108101d1218449279-ford-6-4l-diesel-replacement-connecting-20rod.jpg
Good luck in your decision, KD
Had mine for ten years, 182,000 miles, It's had a tranny rebuild, New fuel system, New injector pump. Fixin to have to buy a dash now, It's falling to pieces. Spent a lot of money keeping it going. Ironically the money has been spent on the drivetrain system. The truck has been good except fir the dash. The fuel system was a joke and left me stranded several times.
Injector pump died on me this summer. 1500 dollars Tranny took a dump at the beginning of summer. 2000 dollars, Fuel system i put on is a fASS fuel and have already replaced a pump on it. It was in warrenty and they sent me a new one.
When i bought the truck i got it for a daily commuter and work truck, Diesel shot up to 5 bucks a gallon and i bought a motorcycle. Truck is not a commuter now except on bad weather days. Have put 46,000 miles on the bike. Back then diesel trucks were getting better mileage than the gas trucks, Now the gas are getting better. The EPA has killed diesel trucks.
I personally would not buy another diesel truck as the gas ones are better on fuel mileage and diesel is way more expesive than gas now. I would however buy another 3/4 ton truck.
I had five lift pumps put on this truck before i replaced all the stock POS fuel system. When you have to work on a diesel, it don't nickle and dime you to death it hundred dollar bills you to death.
Injector pump died on me this summer. 1500 dollars Tranny took a dump at the beginning of summer. 2000 dollars, Fuel system i put on is a fASS fuel and have already replaced a pump on it. It was in warrenty and they sent me a new one.
When i bought the truck i got it for a daily commuter and work truck, Diesel shot up to 5 bucks a gallon and i bought a motorcycle. Truck is not a commuter now except on bad weather days. Have put 46,000 miles on the bike. Back then diesel trucks were getting better mileage than the gas trucks, Now the gas are getting better. The EPA has killed diesel trucks.
I personally would not buy another diesel truck as the gas ones are better on fuel mileage and diesel is way more expesive than gas now. I would however buy another 3/4 ton truck.
I had five lift pumps put on this truck before i replaced all the stock POS fuel system. When you have to work on a diesel, it don't nickle and dime you to death it hundred dollar bills you to death.
michigander
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've had a Ford diesel for going on 15 years. The last one is a 2000 7.3 with 230,000 on it. The motor and trans have never been apart. Just small things like water pumps and alternators have bit the dust. They are expensive to maintain, but if your pulling a lot of weight, its the way to go. Don't buy one for running around town and short distances. There made to run! Keep the filters and fluids changed and they will be very reliable!
I am on my second ford f550 with a 37and a half altec boom, the truck ways around 16000 and is a 2010. My last was a 2001 and had 180000 on it when it was sent to auction, motor was still good trans was out. The old truck was a great truck decent milage the new truck is a solid truck it only has 10000 on it now but I see problems coming the milage is 6.4 on the highway thats right 6.4. My freinds 2010 dodge with the same boom, and given the day same weight is getting 11 to 12 on highway, these trucks gears very similar, and the ford I drive has this anoying exsaust cleaning system, and if u dont let it go through its paces they tell me u will be on the side of the road. If u are pulling all the time I say buy the dissel if ur wife is going to the store in it get gas. The first service truck I had was a 97 454 vortec and that gas motor just couldnt keep up with the day to day abuse it constaly ran hot. I think right now the GMC might be the best choice thats just opinion. Also bear in mind those trucks r all owned buy the power comp I work for and r taken as far as they will drive and drug where they wont, so when they get 180000 the motor is about all that is good on them. U no my dad sure did do alot of work with a half ton truck with overloads on it.
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