Does anyone want to make some money?

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bernithebiker

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On many threads we hear the same thing time after time ; the massive price differences between US and European prices.

It never ceases to amaze me just how huge these differences are. It is totally crazy.

My local dealer here in France is quoting 1250 Euros for a Stihl 441, (THAT'S WITH a discount!!!). In the US it is what 850$?

Now the US $ is taking a dive. So it's 1 Euro = 1.4 $. So the price is exactly HALF, (or less).

I, for one, am fed up with being ripped off like this. There is no good reason for it. In fact, I am much closer to Germany (Stihl) and Scandi (Husky) than the US is!

But when I go to Ebay.com (US) to buy a saw, 95% of sellers will NOT sell to Europe. I have no idea why.

I have already imported a 40 000$ John Deere mower from the US into France. I hired a 20 foot container and filled up the space with a BearCar chipper. Saved me 25 000$.

I would love to import a container full of saws to Europe. I have the space and logistics to receive and store them.

So the question is, does anyone want to make some money? Join me in a venture to bring a good quantity of saws to Europe?

I used to be an oil trader. This situation is called abritrage ; when a commodity suddenly has a much higher value in one place than another. eg. very often gasoline prices spike in New York harbour to become the highest in the world - what happens? Cargoes are diverted to there from around the world. Why not chainsaws?!!
 
You buy 6, I keep 1.:D 440 please:pumpkin2: :ices_rofl:

You have a good idea but shipping would be the biggest step....How many saws do you want?
 
Hiring a 20 foot container is not that expensive, I'll have to check back as it was over 2 years ago when I moved the Deere WAM 1600 mower, but I think it was a bit more than 1000$, NY to France.

How many? As many as will fit into a 20' container. That's quite alot I would think. I can work it out quite easily assuming a box size of about 3' x 1' x 1'.

What would also be nice is something to say that the saw is the same as sold in Europe (most are) or even better the EU conformity certificate.
 
Wouldn't you get taxed when it went through customs?
 
bernithebiker said:
But when I go to Ebay.com (US) to buy a saw, 95% of sellers will NOT sell to Europe. I have no idea why.
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I'm no expert on the subject, but it has to do with import/export agreements imposed by governments, manufacturers (or both) on retail sellers.

Individuals selling used items are not bound by those agreements, so they can sell and ship to foreign countries if they want to. The basic idea behind that is individuals will be selling one or two items here and there, so its not enough quantity to make it worth enforcing. This is one reason its not uncommon to see used items on Ebay selling for equal to or more than the price of a NEW one in the US.

Places like Amazon, etc. can't ship certain items (usually higher priced ones) to foreign countries. I'm not sure if its setup by the governments to protect their local merchants and taxation systems, or by the manufacturers to keep their prices high in certain markets. I agree with you though, it is frustrating.

The bottom line is, although your idea makes sense financially, I think you'll find that an authorized dealer will not co-operate with this type of business venture, as they could probably lose their business franchise (it would most likely violate their business agreement with the mfr).

Finding anyone with an appreciable quantity of new saws that had nothing to lose by going forward with your plan is not likely, otherwise they'd already be selling them to Europe on Ebay themselves.
 
ebay shipping

On my Ebay items. I will ship worldwide. However it will cost you quite a bit in shipping once the boxes get bigger. Especially France once you get over a certain size box. I will PM you a slightly different idea
 
Firstly, tax.

Yes, you would pay 17 to 19.6% in VAT (sales tax) depending on which European country you bring them inti.

Import duty - some items have an extra import duty on them. On the mower and the chipper I paid zero. It is easy to check for chainsaws, I shall do so tomorrow, but I see no reason why import duty should be applied to them, and even if there is, then it is usually less than 10%.

This still leaves a pretty hefty margin.

John Deere went absolutely nuts when they found out I had imported that mower. But nothing they could do about it, it was all totally legal.

The reason Stihl and now Husky don't want to sell over the internet is fot exactly this reason. They want to protect their juicy European market.

But there is no reason why someone in the US cannot go to a US dealer and buy 100 saws. I am sure the dealer would be delighted. The dealer is unlikely to care what the buyer is going to do with them.
 
They do like to rip you off in your own back yard. I had some friends that were stationed here with the German air force, before they went home they would buy as many Stihl saws as they could afford to resell when they got home.:cheers:


BTW, One of them also went back with half a cord of mesquite, I taught him what bbq really was while he was here. He is probably out by now.
 
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Just to be clear - there is no restriction on importing stuff like this into the the UK or France. As long as it is not dangerous or illegal, eg. explosives, furskins, etc. then no problem. Customs cannot refuse entry to something like chainsaws. The US and UK are friends right?!

The reason certain companies will not sell abroad is simple protectionism. They want to manipulate YOU the buyer. They like to say what you can and can't buy and when.

But if I have a friend in the US who gets a load of new saws, and I buy them from him, what law has been broken there? None.
 
The only reason I don't sell used saws internationally on ebay is because I don't think customs would like it much to recieve a package that smelled like 2 stroke mix. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have a problem selling overseas. I've sold alot of classic auto parts that left our shores.
 
heck I have shipped gas tanks off bikes to scotland, spain and a couple other places.

the looks the local post office person gives you when they get a whif is priceless!
 
Mold Mechanic said:
The only reason I don't sell used saws internationally on ebay is because I don't think customs would like it much to recieve a package that smelled like 2 stroke mix. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have a problem selling overseas. I've sold alot of classic auto parts that left our shores.
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put the saw inside two heavy plastic bags--no smell---and--if the post office knows its a chainsaw--and had gas in it--they wont ship it--been there--so i go to the next town--they ask whats in it--i say a hunk of meat---
 
bernithebiker said:
But there is no reason why someone in the US cannot go to a US dealer and buy 100 saws. I am sure the dealer would be delighted. The dealer is unlikely to care what the buyer is going to do with them.
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I'd be interested in hearing what some of the Stihl dealers on this forum have to say about that idea. First, most dealerships I'm familiar with only have a few of each model in stock at any given time, so this would definitely be a special order. I'm sure they get quantity purchases from the forest service and similar agencies that use them by the dozen, but if Joe Blow walks in off the street with a quantity order like that, I'd suspect questions would follow. After all, they would have to know you are planning to resell them, unless you can come up with a good reason for needing that many saws at one time. They want to sell only through their authorized dealers, so they'd definitely be suspicious about your motives.

So, maybe you could buy 10 saws from 10 different dealerships to lower your profile. Its still probably a special order, and when 10 orders for 10 saws each show up at the Stihl regional office I suspect the same questions would get asked.

But, mail me a check for $100k and I'll give it a try. If I don't succeed I'll be sure to return the check ASAP. You can trust me, I'm your friend you met on the Internet.
 
cityboy said:
I'm sure they get quantity purchases from the forest service and similar agencies that use them by the dozen, but if Joe Blow walks in off the street with a quantity order like that, I'd suspect questions would follow.
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Well,if millions of illegal aliens can cross the border iinto the USA fairly easily,I doubt if a 100 chainsaws going out would be such a big problem.Just my opinion.:chainsawguy:

lonewolf57
 
So I have a question.... If ya did it for the JD mower, why not do the same for the saws? I mean, what involvement do you need anyone else for? Are you trying to save the cost of a round trip ticket? I mean anyone who's willing to "help" here is probably gonna want a little more than ticket would cost ya. You can fly here, buy up all the saws you want, and ship 'em just like you did with the mower.... right? Do ya need an investment from someone here to assist in purchasing these saws? This may paint a slightly different picture on such a venture.

Dan
 
Tax and customs would probably be a lot less if they were considered parts saws. Hint, hint.

Or you could have someone set each one up, make a cut and rebox them. Used saws.
 
So I have a question.... If ya did it for the JD mower, why not do the same for the saws? I mean, what involvement do you need anyone else for? Are you trying to save the cost of a round trip ticket? I mean anyone who's willing to "help" here is probably gonna want a little more than ticket would cost ya. You can fly here, buy up all the saws you want, and ship 'em just like you did with the mower.... right? Do ya need an investment from someone here to assist in purchasing these saws? This may paint a slightly different picture on such a venture.

Dan
__________________

To answer this;

For the JD mower I managed to find a VERY slightly used one at a dealership, so effectively it was second hand.
For the chainsaws, I would have to come to the US in person, assuming it was a large amount, because as someone else pointed out earlier, however nice you guys all are, I don't send 50 000$ in cash to someone I don't know!! And yes I do have those funds available.

The buyer of the chainsaws would need to be a local, with a local address. He then sells them on to me as a private deal. I see nothing illegal in that, please correct me if I'm wrong! (Just trying to trade some commodities here!)

As for the quantities, a 20' container has these internal dimensions;

Length = 19'3"
Width = 7'7"
Height = 7'9".

So assuming a chainsaw package is 3 x 1 x 1, you can get in at least 6 x 7 x 7 = 294 saws.

294 saws @ $400 each (on average) = $117 600

Freight cost = $2500, including lorry trip at either end, and handling/inspection charges at the port.

Insurance = $250

So call it $3000 of transport cost, which gives you $10 per saw.

Consider an MS441 at $750 in the US.

Add the VAT at 19.6% gives you $897, and the transport gives you $907.

$907 is 647 Euros (the exchange rate has never been so good).

In France this saw retails at 1250 Euros.

You telling me a buyer who sees one at 900 Euros, is going to say, 'hey I really prefer to buy the one at 1250?' Even if you consider that there is no guarantee at all (not convinced that STihl/Husky is ALLOWED to refuse to guarantee it, but hey, that's a detail....), and the engine seizes after 6 months, you're STILL up $wise.

So if you can make 200Euros per saw, i.e. 280$, that's 280 x 294 = 82 320$ of pure profit on that one shipment. (Oh sorry less $1000 travel expenses, France to US!!!)

I reckon I could shift about 30 to 50 saws a month in Europe at those prices, so a total time of 6 months to 1 year.

Now noone's saying it's easy - there are difficulties and complications. But earning 82 000$ a year was never going to be easy.....right?

In any case, if 300 saws is too much (and I have to say I would rather do say, 50 to kick off) just about ANYTHING else in the US works too.

Quads - less than half price - Honda Rincon US = 7000$, here 15 400$ (I know, I have one)

Chippers - less than half price, Bearcat, etc.

Mowers - be it Honda, Husqvarna, whatever,

Bike parts, cycle or motorcyle - I know I buy thousands of $ of bike stuff from the US every year.

Clothes, jeans, trainers, etc.

M1 Abrams tanks (only joking!)

Hey, the list is endless
 
In Spain, the chainsaws are more cheap than France.
Example: Stihl 441 price list: 969 euros -15%discount = 823,65 euros
Husky 372xp price list: 910 euros -15% = 773,50 euros
Husky 575xp price list: 1006 euros - 15%= 855,10 euros

15% is usualy discount for professionals here.
 
Hi Podaltura,

Yeah, that's a whole bunch cheaper than in France. But my target market is homeowner's, farmers, etc. who are not professionals, and would not get that 15% discount.

For example the Stihl MS 250 sells here in Castorama (a bit like Wal Mart) for 499 Euros, or $700. That is the BEST price a private buyer can get it for in this country. And they sell plenty at that price.

The UK is also a bit cheaper than France, but still more than your Spanish price.
 

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