Echo CS-370

[Cliff R]

Just took delivery of our new Echo CS-370. We were looking for a small rear handle limbing saw in the 35-40cc range for light work. I was really looking at a Makita or even a Redmax, but found a CS-370 new for under $150, so thought we'd try one out.

It showed up today assembled and ready to go. Prior to firing it up, I took a long drywall screw and removed the limiting caps over the carburetor adjustment screws. I've learned from past experience that Echo saws are set up quite lean from the factory. I gently seated the L and H screws and counted the stock settings. 1 1/4 turns for the L, and 3 1/4 turns for the H.

The saw fired right up on the 4th pull, and stalled out. It did this several times then stayed running. I warmed it up for a couple of minutes. It would not stay idling on it's own, and had a minor stumble when the throttle was hit quickly.

I re-adjusted the L screw to 1 3/8. It still didn't want to take the throttle well, so I opened up the H screw to 3 1/2 turns. Better, or at least good enough to make a few cuts.

The saw didn't run well at all in the cut, it just seemed really weak and bogged down easily. I kept adding fuel with the H screw until it ran well enough to make a couple of dozen cuts. I was cutting big material on the woodpile, with most of the 16" bar buried for most cuts. After a few dozen cuts I tried some no load rpm testing, and the rev limiter immediately came in, so it was difficult to tell how close the H speed adjustment was?

Anyhow, I added fuel until rpm's slowed up and we had noticable "4 stroking", then leaned it back up a little at a time, making heavy cuts after each adjustment to test the power. I ended up making best power at 4 1/8 turns out, almost one full turn MORE than the original factory setting. Going any leaner than this and power would fall off sharply in the cut.

Anyhow, it is difficult to assess the power of the saw at this point. It seems pretty good, actually quite a bit better than I was expecting. I'll have to get the engine well seated in, and do some limbing with it. It did fine cross cutting HUGE chunks of Beech, so it should really shine cutting smaller limbs against the grain.

After the break in period and enough hours to fully evaluate the saw, we'll remove the catalyst and muffler mod it, to see if it has any more potential......Cliff

 

[Octane]

If its anything like my Echo leafblower, it will run noticably better once you run a tank or 2 through it.
My Echo blower would surge at first, but now that it has a few tanks ran through it, the things runs great.

 

[mountainlake]

Like normal, EPA tuning is way lean, way more power with enough fuel. After you got done tuning in the wood does it still hit the rev limiter? Octane, you might want to try giveing your blower a little more fuel. Mine runs fine a little lean but make more RPM with more fuel. Steve

 

[Butch(OH)]

When I told the Echo rep at the Bunyan show I owned a 370 the first thing he said was "do you have any trouble keeping it running when it is cold?" We have owned one since they first came out, ours has a 3 digit serial number and no primer bulb. It is without a doubt the hardest saw to keep running on the first start in cold weather, say 30 or so, that we own. Starts easy enough but once running it wont stay running with the choke on or off, has to be manipulated near half choked to keep it going. Seems to help if I let it rev on fast idle for 15 seconds before kicking it off but doing such things goes against my nature. The cold blooded part can be gotten by by opening up the jets a tad but then its WAY to rich to cut and its slow enough when running right. I told the Echo rep that it seems to suffer from fuel fall out as it acts real lean as you try to open it up then once it starts to come up it wont rev for being rich. The rep said, sounds like a typical 370. Takes a cut or two to warm the engine and get past this nonsense then it cleans out and does OK. I just cant imagine Joe average homeowner putting up with it's idiosyncrasies for very long, probably why the have been on Ebay for cheap eh? I realy do not hate the 370 but our Shindiawa 446 weighs the same, starts easier, stays running when started, vibrates less, and is AT LEAST twice as fast in the cut (ya its a couple more CC). I have never laid a screwdriver on it, it's fast becoming a favorite saw. Come on over and try it, I'm in 'vernon too, but be ready to park the 370,:hmm3grin2orange: LOL/

 

[Cliff R]

Yep, this one wouldn't stay running cold, choke on or off, and wouldn't take the throttle well enough to make any cuts.

I'll put a few tanks for it and fine tune as needed, then so a muffler mod on it. Hopefully that will wake it up some.

Since I didn't do any limbing with it, it's tough to even tell how well it's going to be for what we bought it for? I was able to completely bury the 16" bar cross-cutting hard/dry beech chunks, and it didn't bog down, but didn't run overly fast either.

I also agree, can't even imagine a homeowner buying one of these saws and trying to use it without being able to remove the limiter caps and adjust the carburetor. Even if they had somewhat of a clue as to how to adjust one, the rev limiter would fool them into thinking they were close, and it would still be way too lean.

Never even heard of a Shindawa 446, but I'm sure it's a lot faster than the CS-370. I'll bring along my modded Husqvarna 55, so right after I have to throw my CS-370 down over the hill, you can throw the Shindawa right behind it!.. .....Cliff

 

[Geno44]

Echo 370 "break-in"

Is taking a brand new small saw and cutting larger stuff considered the best way to break it in? I would think that smaller material and throttle up and throttle down would do a better job gently seating things and avoiding getting parts too warm and causing damage.

 

[Cliff R]

Good point!

I didn't make a LOT of heavy cuts, and loaded and unloaded the engine frequently while it was in the cut.

I regulated the throttle to avoid a lot of high rpm's, and added a few extra drops of Echo oil mix to the first tank.

Today we'll run the saw for an hour or so, then adjust it up against the rev limiter and see what it's made of!.......Cliff

 

[Javelin]

Keep us updated!

 

[Cliff R]

Update. I ran two tanks of fuel through the saw today, and made a few more adjustments to the carburetor. It doesn't appear to have a rev limiting module like the CS-360T. When you lean up the "H" screw it will run away without the reve limiter catching it.

Anyhow, makes it a lot easier to set. I ran the first tank through it a tad rich, and cut up a couple of tops with small limbs. I actually got it to run quite well, about as well as a 36cc saw could run. It has OK power, nothing overly impressive, but I did feel it would respond well to a muffler mod, and I'm a hot rodder at heart...SO....off comes the muffler and I modded it!

Turns out this one was really easy, not like the CS-360T, didn't have to cut it in half to access the catalyst. I was quite surprised when I pulled the muffler that the exhaust port is HUGE at the flange opening. It starts out pretty small in a "teardrop" shape back at the piston, then opens up to almost 2" diameter completely round at the opening.

The catalyst sets in it's own steel "cup", and I took it out in seconds with a large drill bit, followed by a carbide cutter to smooth up the jagged edges.

At the bottom of the "cup" there were 8 holes, 4 really small and 4 a bit larger. I was able to access the 4 larger holes with a 1/4" drillbit, and open them right up. I left the 4 smaller holes alone.

I took the carbide cutter and opened up the exit in the muffler, combining two of the three holes already present into one large "teardrop" shaped hole, but staying small enough so the factory deflector could still be used. I did NOT modify the deflector for the first testing. I also removed a pretty good sized "shelf" just under the exit hole leading back into the main chamber.

Fired up the saw, and went to work. Immediately it felt stronger everyplace, and emitted a much "sharper" note in the exhaust. The throttle response was noticably improved, as no matter where I set the carb prior to the muffler mod, it would hesitate ever so slightly with very quick throttle movements. Not really enough to be a problem, but it was still there and I wasn't able to tune it out before the muffer mod.

Anyhow, the muffler mod helped, but it didn't help at really high rpm's as I was expecting. I tried leaning up the carb some hoping to find more upper rpm and top end power, more power but no further into the rpm range than before the mods. It still picked up some in the loaded range, and "grunts" better than before the mods.

I'll try opening up the deflector just a bit tomorrow, and see if maybe it's still restricting it just a bit? Not seeing any real improvement at really high rpms may still be a by-product of the module. My contact at Echo did mention that it uses a module that will retard the timing at really high rpm's, this may be in lieu of using a limiting module that starts cancelling the spark and send the engine into a "studder" mode instead.

As far as likes and dislikes, I love the light weight and balance, anti-vibe is excellent, love the raised caps and generous gas and oil tanks. I actually let it run for over an hour without shutting it off once, never even acted like it was going to stall out. Starts right up now on the second pull cold, and first pull when hot. I'm going to put a 14" bar in place of the 16", which should help slightly with performance, and I will only have to stock one chain as it's the same one used on the 14" CS-360T.

If I happen to find any more power lurking anyplace, we'll post another report, otherwise, I'm quite pleased with the saw, but not doing backflips over it or anything.....and you absolutely aren't going to buy any more saw for under $150 that I'm aware of?......Cliff

PS: I wonder if they will honor my 5 year consumer warrantee?.....Seriously.....who cares!

 

[Javelin]

sounds like you could open up the exhaust port and pick some power!

 

[Cliff R]

Yep, nothing negative from the efforts, but I was pretty conservative the first time around. I'll work it a bit more, little at a time and see how it goes?.....Cliff

 

[RED-85-Z51]

wow, your experiences contradict mt fathers. They run (2) 370's where he works, and they had to break one out over the weekend to cut up some pretty big dead fall, it was 25* outside, and these saws are stored in a tin shed. Even sitting for 2 months untouched it fired on the 3rd pull and it idled down great, they walked it about 200 feet to the dead fall and proceeded to cut up the oak limbs without any problems. I never touched the caps on these saws, and both tached out nicely right out of the box when I prepped them.

One gets used more than the other, but between them Id say they've had 20 tanks run through em.

The only Echo's Ive had to ever adjust on was 1 power Pruner, it was too lean at idle...and a couple Top handle Echos, both were just a hair lean at idle. I have to actually lean some of them out as they tach way low...

Cliff, make sure you arent getting a fuel line pinch or something like that. Your adjustments are way off stock and the screws effectiveness at the point they are at is very limted.

 

[mountainlake]

Nice report Cliff. Red I'd say between me and Cliff we've had to adjust 95% of our new Echo's richer to run right and make good power. I have 1 with the caps still on. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

Stock "L" screw 1 1/4 turns, current setting apprx 1 3/8" turns.

Stock "H" screw 3 1/8" turns, current setting apprx 4 turns.

If you set the "L" screw any leaner on this saw, it hesitates when the throttle is quickly applied. To test my setting, I ran the saw for over an hour without shutting it off, quite a bit of idling time, and it never even acted like it was loading up.

At WOT it's right on the "edge", any leaner and it quits "four stroking" and the engine goes lean/runs away at no load, and the power curve goes "flat" in the cut.

Just trying to make an accurate report, and there are no fuel system related issues with this particular saw, lines are not pinched, filter is on the fuel line and correctly positioned in the tank, etc.

One thing I would add is that I haven't really done a lot of limbing with it, which is what is was purchased for. About all I have to cut here on my property is some pretty big chuncks on the firewood pile that need split.

It did an OUTSTANDING job limbing a couple of maple tops left over from the big wind storm a few months ago, material no more than about 4". It simply does OK with the 16" bar buried in a big chunck of Beech or Oak, cross-cutting, etc. I'm impressed enough with the saw that it will replace one of the old Mac's in the truck toolbox. It doesn't cut much faster than the PM-320, but will cut about 4 times as much wood on a tank of fuel!.....Cliff

 

[Javelin]

that is decent then because most of the 320's I have run cut pretty darn good for there size! Does it have about the same torque as the 320?

 

[Butch(OH)]

wow, your experiences contradict mt fathers.]

Red, I like my Echos but the 370 is a turd, at least mine is. Even my son's who are reasonably proficiant with saws cant keep it running when it is cold out unless they start it about 5 times. I get along with it because only because I want to. Part of mine could be early production problems, the rep even confirmed the cold running issue at at the lumber show. Mine is a VERY early saw. Glad your father's runs great.

 

[mountainlake]

Are they using finer thread on the high adjuster now, 4 turns seems like a lot. The old carbs were 3/4 to 1 turn out on the high. Steve

 

[Fettlst]

MY 370 does the same thing when its cold. Does any one have the same problem out of the CS-400? i was thinking about getting one of those but then..mmm i might wait until the new CS-450 come out.

 

[Cliff R]

The CS-370 starts easier, and runs better than either of our old PM's everyplace. About HALF the noise level as well!

"Are they using finer thread on the high adjuster now, 4 turns seems like a lot. The old carbs were 3/4 to 1 turn out on the high. Steve"

Steve, I double checked the setting on the "H" screw, it's right at 4 turns out currently, and pretty darned close. I may bring it in a tad more when the engine is completely broken in. Right now it is "four stroking" around 13,000rpm's, and cleaned right up when a load is applied, then immediately starts "four stroking" again if the load is removed. Going leaner results in it wanting to rev quite a bit higher in the cut as the load is removed. I don't like running new saws right up on the "edge", best to seat them in really good first, as things usually change some as the engine finally "sets" the rings.

Another UPDATE:

I made more progress with it today. Even after the muffler mods, I had left the deflector stock. I noticed today that the actual opening in the deflector is tiny, a lot moreso than I had thought originally when I glanced at it during the muffler mod, so I opened it up about 30 percent more, to match the "teardrop" shape of the opening in the actual muffler.

I was immediately rewarded with a sharper/crisper sound from the exhaust, and more power at higher rpm's. The engine is probably starting to get seated in better, because it was quite impressive to run today. I was still cutting pretty big material for this size saw, but still surprised at how well it lugged thru crosscutting large chunks of dry hardwood.

No more modifications planned until I can make a couple of outings and run a half dozen or so tanks thru the saw limbing, which is what I'm supposed to be doing with it......Cliff

 

[Octane]

Octane, you might want to try giveing your blower a little more fuel. Mine runs fine a little lean but make more RPM with more fuel. Steve

Maybe. It actually runs really sweet as-is. Starts on the first pull and then I let it run on choke for about 5 seconds and let it idle for about 30 seconds to warm up.
It runs so sweet Im not all that worried about messing with the carb.