employee problems

[Shaun Bowler]

How do you disaplin an employee that causes desention on the crew by complaining,whining, and beining direspectful to co-workers and foremen? How can you possibliy pen point every instance. How do you say you have been a ********? Knock it off!
These problems are some we all face from time to time, however it is not something tangable, like say a broken window, or coming in late. Sometimes people outgrow thier positions in companies, can't go any higher and become frustrated, angery. Working where I do, a Muni. you just can't fire someone without procedure. What do you guys do, suggest?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I'm an arbo not an employee discipline expert, Cap'n...

Talk with someone in human resources. Even if you don't have an HR person in your company, put the word out. You might find a friend of a friend.

Whatever you do, be sure to document any discussions that you have with the employee. Date, time, what was discussed. Not a bad idea to give a copy to the employee and have them sign the document. This should make it clear that the behavior is not allowed. Set a boundary and expectation and then enforce both.

You might read "The One Minute Manager" too. Some good ideas that are easy to implement.

The days of the boss screaming their head off are gone. Like it or not, too many employees think that they have a "right" to do as they please while employed.

Tom

 

[Crofter]

some people go after the respect of their co- workers and bosses by striving to do an admirable job. If they have given up on getting attention this way they will settle for getting attention by finding fault with everything. They always seem to find an audience so are rewarded. They are usually aware that they are not popular with supervision and are quite careful to cover their "ashes" and not be caught in something you could fire them for. They just poison the atmosphere of the workplace. Document every incident and have a witness for any reprimands etc. I would rather any day deal with a mechanical problem than a people problem. Rarely you might get such a person to see what he is actually doing and why and have him change. Lots of Luck!

 

[TREETX]

That book is by Ken Blanchard - quick read. Good ideas.

I have been that frustrated, over qualified employee that has out grown a position. The last job I had, I went in and told the owner that I wanted to be in charge of sales/operations. The current alcoholic moron had been there 12 yrs. He said no. I left - best thing ever - wish I would have been fired 6months earlier. Now, Owner, sales, operations, accounts recievable, purchasing, tree doctor, tree undertaker, lead climber, brush dragger, HR, PR,...............When I am over qualified for this position, what then.

Read that book, take a deep breath, try to change attitudes and if that doesn't work, take out the trash!!

 

[geofore]

Muni

Talk to him and find out what's his beef. If you have to, find him a job elsewhere if possible. Some people whine no matter where they are or what they do for a living.

 

[Ryan Willock]

if their a bad employee then i wouldn't even dare to think about recommending him to someone else!!! that would defenatly come back to bite you in the a$$!! i would however document what the problems are and fire him post haste:alien: thank God the employer has the right to fire people in NC without reason

 

[spreaderman]

make him quit

find the one thing that he hates to do and put him doing it alone this will make him mad and tell him he is going to do that from now on everyday, it won't take long til he won't show up at all

 

[Ryan Willock]

spreader's right, thats a VERY GOOD way to get rid of people you don't want working for you anymore:angel:

 

[blackwaterguide]

employees and the firing process

straight up truth--good suggestion to hear them out first. It has not seemed to matter...logging, construction, aborist business; if they cannot be satisfied in some way then it is imperative to let them go. Many times they may thank you for it later. This is a team business, they buy that or find another. Unbelievable how many reasons to be unhappy when working with trees and loving it.

 

[Nickrosis]

I like the idea of granting a spontaneous "on-time" bonus to employees who have not been tardy for the past 3 months or whatever time period. You'll have some people claiming they would have been to work on time "if they only knew..." Well, buddy, that's the point of making it spontaneous.

You wouldn't believe how happy the employees who receive the bonus are. The morale boost has lasted for years!

Nickrosis

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Good angle Nick; work the other end of the problem!

Of course i don't know what you guys are talking of; that is why we started our knew policy today stating: "If the job or you gets shut down by the rain, it is OK to close the truck windows." Would a hole employee man-u-all have to be re-printed to add that???

 

[NeTree]

I would simply terminate them. This type of employee is never going to "get it" anyhow. No matter what you do to make them happy, it will be short lived, and you'll end up getting rid of him somewhere down the road anyway. Whiners are bad for morale- bad morale makes for an unhappy crew, and unhappy crews can't work with the close-knit teamwork that most jobs require to be done correctly and safely.

JMHO

 

[City climber]

bad employee

One of myo old bosses had a simple way to get rid of undesireables.He would put them in the woodyard splitting wood after 1 or 2 days they would usually quit.

 

[Tree Machine]

Employees: I prefer to work alone and maybe have to work harder and possibly longer to get the job done, but I'll tell ya what. I find it's worth it just to not have to ever deal with the pictures you're painting; the attitudes, the no-shows the whiners. I don't like having to have control over someone else's life and take responsibility for their on-site behaviors. I don't want to eat their mistakes and make up for where they're not pulling their weight. I can provide a man personal protective equipment, but I just can not teach a him how to be careful. Nor can I instill in him basic common sense. If he injures himself, guess who gets to escort him to the hospital? This is scary stuff. If he's demoralizing your crew (or you) and you don't have the right to can his sorry ass, what is that doing to your life, liberty and your pursuit of happiness? How about your wife who has to listen to the crap you bring home. If you fire him, then you've got his inflamed emotions, maybe a person who's vowing to 'get back' at you or sabotage your reputation.
I prefer to work alone and maybe have to work harder and possibly longer to get the job done, but I'll tell ya what. I find it's worth it just to not have to ever deal with the pictures you're painting; the attitudes, the no-shows the whiners. I don't like having to have control over someone else's life and take responsibility for their on-site behaviors. I don't want to eat their mistakes and make up for where they're not pulling their weight. I can provide a man personal protective equipment, but I just can not teach a him how to be careful. Nor can I instill in him basic common sense. If he injures himself, guess who gets to escort him to the hospital? This is scary stuff. If he's demoralizing your crew (or you) and you don't have the right to can his sorry ass, what is that doing to your life, liberty and your pursuit of happiness? How about your wife who has to listen to the crap you bring home? If you fire him, then you've got his inflamed emotions, maybe a person who's vowing to 'get back' at you or sabotage your reputation.
I listen to satellite radio all day, focus my energies on quality tree care and clean up well. I know there are many out there who make more money than I, but my biggest perk is the freedom from all the hassles and the not having to deal with the employee thing, the insurances, the headaches.

There is no law stating that if you are a treeguy, or a Professional Treecare Service that you HAVE to have employees. You're not required to move economies with your sheer scale. I subscribe to 'employee-optional' work and I only opt for help, well about 5 times last year and only three times so far this year (the last guy I remember saying, "This rake is heavy..." How the heck am I supposed to address that without sounding condescending???)

I know I am a rare breed in this industry, and maybe I'm the poster child, but the most important thing to me is my freedom, my peace and my ability to do tree care and customer service at the highest level, unpressured by having to keep a guy moving if I stop to talk to my client. I'm an arborist not a psychologist, not a babysitter. I'm also not arrogant, even though it sort of reads that way. I have a simple mathematical formula to address those concerned with 'more money/ less freedom'. This will only take a minute, interested in seeing it, Nick?

 

[Tree Machine]

Employee REAL per hour cost

OK, I'm just going to go on with my mathematical theory, and everyone can take from it what they will. It's just a theory:

$500 job, you have a helper at $12 an hour, the two of you together get the job done in 8 hours. Alone, you could have done it in 10 hours. Did you pay your guy a hundred bucks for the 8 hours he worked, or the two hours he saved you?? You're going home at the end of the day with $400 instead of $500. Worth it to you, or would you rather earn the $50 an hour for the last two hours?

Granted, this is just a hypothetical situation. I find that when another guy uses any tool other than a rake, my time in maintaining that piece of gear goes up dramatically (now I'm losing money at MY rate of pay, not his). Say he doesn't bring his own lunch and drink, as instructed, and you're (semi) obligated to leave the worksite to get him fed, he overpours your saw's oil reservoir and spills gas on the client's driveway. I've had guys think that you can feed litter, gravel and whatever into the chipper. When I feed the chipper, I FEED the chipper; I don't stand there and watch in amazement as the last inch of it disappears before sauntering off to pick up another one.

'Hidden' employee costs go far beyond the workman's comp insurance, the extra time in communication and the additional taxes and paperwork. $12 an hour is CHEAP, if that were really all it is.

I'm not meaning to

 

[Tree Machine]

oops, not meaning to turn guys off to employees. I've had some really great guys in the past and some of those guys now have tidy little business going from all that I've taught them. That's great, but the next guy, I have to spend all that time again on his learning curve if I expect to have a quality work partner that respects the high level of pride I take in my work.

 

[treeclimber165]

I guess I have a similar attitude as Tree Machine. But the safety issue arises about climbing alone. No one to untangle your lifeline from the brush, no one to lower that limb, and NO ONE TO CALL 911 IF I MAKE A MISTAKE AND HURT MYSELF!

Since I am not very good at dealing with/supervising other people, I find that working as a freelance climber works for me. I climb for different companies and since I am not a full time employee it is easier for me to accept shortcomings in others that I work with. I can accept the fact that the crew doesn't do everything exactly my way and that's OK because I am not responsible for their actions. By reminding myself that it is OK for the crew to do things a different way, I have discovered that all those employees are not quite as stupid/lazy as I once thought. The important thing is that I can climb for a living safely and not have to deal with supervising others.

 

[kf_tree]

tree machine, now try this math........you said you and one guy can do 500.00 in 8 hours with you taking home 400 and the lacky taking 100.00. now if you hired 3 guys and did 1000.00 in 8-10 hours. you would make 700.00 and pay out 300.00

it may only sound like an extra 200.00 a day but its a 1000.00 a week which is 4000.00 a month.

how do you do a technical removal by yourself? your forced to only pic the jobs you can handle by your self. if you used people more than 5 times a year they might learn the routine and actually do good work.

also why not pay 100.00 to get home 2 hours earlier each day to spend with your family or even go fishing? pay a little and enjoy life a bit.

 

[Greg]

I can't see how you can work alone day in and out. My crew allow me to go home a little earlier, a little less tired, and the next day I am ready to roll again, not hurting from humping logs around and dragging brush all day.
Correcting bad attitudes is a hard thing to do. If this person used to be good I'd take the time to try to change them, if not do what ever you have to do to get rid of him. A good way of dealing with this is to just paint a picture of what you are seeing and ask if that is accurate and let him know that you want to see him happy again. ---I've noticed that you don't seem to happy these days, you complain when I ask you to (be specific) rake, shovel chips, go to the dump, etc... The others are noticing it to and it is bringing us all down. Is there anything going on that I should know about?? Things ok at home?? Do you not like working here?? If he denies a problem you will probably just need to fire him, but this approach will usually get people to open up and tell you the real problem when you act like you really want to know. When doccumenting things (you must doccument) make sure that you put in there that you asked how you could help, you offered a day off for him to get his head together,etc...
It is much harded for him to then make you look like the uncaring, rich, mean boss that courts and other will assume you are.
--I just read a book called the Fish Philosopy based off of a Seattle fish market company. I think it really can work in our industry and makes for a good team of happy workers. It starts with "choosing your attitude".
Greg

 

[TREETX]

Greg has it right, take away every reason to demonize the boss. May help prevent demoralization on vandalizing of equipment.

My grandfather used to do what Nick was talking about with about 50 of his employees in production. He used to do it with cash as opposed to an added bonus to a check. He would come in witha stack of benjamins and put them in the employee's hand himself. I think it makes a big impression.

Employees that will think and hump it are worth it. I do work alone from time to time - more often than I should. Cut and lower pieces from up in the tree and then go down, untie, back up...crazy but gets it done in a pinch. Employees make $$ I get $50-$60 per man hours reguardless of whether it is my man hour or one belonging to Elias, Bernardo, or Cody....
Point in case, worked 2 days this week. total of $2200 - I paid out $450 plus $50 in dumps fees. My take was not bad. I could have done it myself but that would have taken a whole week of back breaking days.

I pay well but I expect a lot. There is no sliding scale, no $8 guys, $12 guys, etc. Everyone is paid well but is really expected to perform.