EPA Stove Question

[Dogsout]

A couple of weeks ago my wife and I went up to Rochester MN to the Gold Rush flea market. There was a dealer there displaying an OWB. Can't remember the name of the burner (It was made in Canada) but the guy seemed to have an answer for all of my questions. I have a non EPA stove presently and this one according to him was EPA approved. Now most of the videos that are posted on here always make reference to the blue darting flame at the top of the firebox. So when he showed me the inside of his burner and said that the secondary burn takes place in roughly a 16 inch diameter ceramic(?) chamber located in the BOTTOM of the burner. I was wondering if all of these stoves work on this same principle? This is the first EPA burner I have ever seen in person so I have nothing else to compare it to. Is this indeed an EPA certified burner I was looking at? He did make the comment that with the cost of LP he took the plunge last year and bought this burner and was so pleased with its performance he decided to become a dealer. He said that he was happy that he only burned half of the wood that a non EPA stove would have took to heat his house. Gave that statement a little thought and couldn't resist to ask him if he has only burned wood for one year how in the heck can you say you only burned half as much if you have no idea roughly how much it would take with a non EPA burner. Couldn't help but smile with his come back "Well that is what the factory told me".

 

[brenndatomu]

Yup, known as a "gassifying" boiler. Burns at extremely high temps in that secondary chamber. More common as a indoor boiler. Work best with hot water storage tanks, fire the boiler, let 'er rip 'til wood is gone. Most people can do 1, sometimes 2 loads per day this way. People that have had old school OWB then switched to a gassifyer do claim 50% wood usage, IDK...

Oh, and this is a different arrangement than most EPA wood stoves use, although there are downdrafter stoves that are kinda similar

 

[NSMaple1]

A boiler is not a stove.

The darting flame up top is a stove thing.

 

[Dogsout]

A boiler is not a stove.

The darting flame up top is a stove thing.

OK thanks for the clarification. I always assumed that the blue darting flame had something to do with burning the gasses in an upper chamber. Not trying to start any thing by the 50% wood reduction comment, just know that it is a bone of contention with a few of the members. By the way if I remember right I think that the one I was looking at would heat a 3000 SF house and had a price tag right at $11,000.

 

[jrider]

Portage and Main possibly? I have an owb that's from Canada- epa gasification model with the blue flame shooting to the secondary on the bottom. I do love it.

 

[brenndatomu]

I think that the one I was looking at would heat a 3000 SF house and had a price tag right at $11,000.

Sounds like that's on the high end to me from what I've seen. Couple years ago, a local HVAC supply house had one on display in the showroom...don't remember the size or brand, it was a common one, maybe I can come up with it, anyways, it was $5500 IIRC, and they are known to be high priced (this vendor, not the boiler manufacturer)
EDIT: Econoburn was the brand, not sure on the model...150 maybe?

 

[Dogsout]

Oh and one other thing that we had a fairly lengthy discussion on was how dry of wood do you need to run it efficiently. I asked if a person bought this unit in the middle of summer wouldn't they have trouble getting wood cut and dried down enough to use this winter? Knowing what I have read on this board that really good dry wood is needed to get the most efficient burn out of these units, I was very surprised when he said his burner would work great with wood up to 25% moisture. Heck using his number I would think you could almost go out and cut down a live ASH tree and burn it in is stove. Told him from what I have read that his number sounded really high but he stuck by it and me not ever having run an EPA stove couldn't put up much of an argument. So is <25% the standard or if not what is?

 

[sawjunky23]

Oh and one other thing that we had a fairly lengthy discussion on was how dry of wood do you need to run it efficiently. I asked if a person bought this unit in the middle of summer wouldn't they have trouble getting wood cut and dried down enough to use this winter? Knowing what I have read on this board that really good dry wood is needed to get the most efficient burn out of these units, I was very surprised when he said his burner would work great with wood up to 25% moisture. Heck using his number I would think you could almost go out and cut down a live ASH tree and burn it in is stove. Told him from what I have read that his number sounded really high but he stuck by it and me not ever having run an EPA stove couldn't put up much of an argument. So is <25% the standard or if not what is?

A friend of mine has a Central Boiler gasification boiler. He said your wood needs to be as dry as wood you burn in your indoor stove. I looked into buying a CB Classic Edge which is an economy version of the gasification boiler. I had reservations as I was concerned about the ability to keep up with wood storage. I figured on buring 7-10 cord a year, if I had to store 14-20 cord on hand to make sure I had dry wood, I wouldn't have the space. I figured on possibly buying my first winter of wood to insure that it was dry and it would give a year to get ahead but I have not pulled the trigger yet. The other factor right now is they are almost giving gas away so at the price of the boiler plus install, I am not sure I could recoup the cost before the unit wore out.

 

[jrider]

You think gas prices will stay low??

 

[sawjunky23]

I was able to contract gas for the next two years at $0.91, anybody guess what gas will do. I am not a gambler.

 

[sawjunky23]

Lets say the price of gas goes for $2.00 a gallon. I burn about 800 gallons a year. Assumming I can buy the unit, 2 heat excahngers, and the instalation bought for 10k. It will take me 6.25 years to break even on the unit. The other propblem is I don't live in the woods. So I have expense in getting the wood. A lot of people seem to think heating with wood is free. I have a brother in law who has a CB Classic. He has a skid loader, a splitter, a processor and about a dozen saws, several manure spreaders, a dump truck and trailer but says he heat bill is zero........ Not saying a boiler is not a good option for some people. I still like the idea. but I think there is more to think about than just the basics.

 

[sam-tip]

Oh and one other thing that we had a fairly lengthy discussion on was how dry of wood do you need to run it efficiently. I asked if a person bought this unit in the middle of summer wouldn't they have trouble getting wood cut and dried down enough to use this winter? Knowing what I have read on this board that really good dry wood is needed to get the most efficient burn out of these units, I was very surprised when he said his burner would work great with wood up to 25% moisture. Heck using his number I would think you could almost go out and cut down a live ASH tree and burn it in is stove. Told him from what I have read that his number sounded really high but he stuck by it and me not ever having run an EPA stove couldn't put up much of an argument. So is <25% the standard or if not what is?

I think 25% is considered seasoned wood. Yes Ash you could burn it this winter. Ash dries fast. Oak better let it sit 2 to 3 years for a gasification burner. Very dry wood is best. Going on my 6th year with my gasser. Rule 1 don't let it run out of wood/coals (charcoal wood). 2. Feed it dry wood. 3 don't over load it. You will use more wood if your wood is not dry. Large learning curve for my gassification burner. I like to think they char the wood and then burns the charcoal. With out good hot coals mine will smoke. But once you get some good hot coals it is very clean and efficient. I have burned year round for 3 years now.