Ethanol in our gas. Are our saws okay?

[theXman]

I was filling up my wife's car the other night and noticed a sticker on the gas pump. Said something like; "Can your boat engine run on an ethanol gasoline mixture?, this gasoline contains a mixture of ethanol, ask the attendant for more information."

I thought for a second, boat? Why boat? Cause many boat engines are two-stroke? Oh crap, what about all my saws? and how long has this been going on!

I'm rarily at a gas pump, most of my trucks are diesel and my employees usually walk over to the gas pump to fill the saw gas can.

This sticker didn't look real new, so I'm guessing this has been out a while.

We use lots of saws and go through maybe 5 gallons of saw gas every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks.

Come to think of it, my saws haven't been running their best these past two years.

How long has this ethanol crap been in the gas and is it okay in our saws?:angry2:

I'm in Maryland (the California of the East).

 

[Lakeside53]

No it's not. Stihl specifically advises against alcohol in gas, and I've seen numerous problems with saws running it. The most common is overheating and separation of the mix oil.

Around here (various around the county), we just advise the use of Chevron Premium or Shell Premium. That way it's safe..

 

[computeruser]

The last couple saws I've purchased new have had something to the effect that the saw was designed to run on low-percentage blend fuels and that the warranty would cover saws run on that sort of stuff. It probably can't help the saws to run that fuel versus straight gasoline (can you even get such a thing anymore?), but low percentage blended fuel in a properly tuned saw using good oil should be fine.

EDIT: I'm talking about seasonal additives, not true "blend" fuels that get their own special gas pumps and stuff like that.

Given the choice, of course, the fuel with the least amount of junk added to it would be best. But in a lot of places, that sort of fuel is getting harder to find and will only get worse as time passes. This is especially true on the coasts, from what I've seen.

At the end of the day, though, why worry about whether ethanol-blend gasoline is good for the saw or not - if that's the only kind of fuel you can reliably buy, what choice do you have?

 

[Lakeside53]

At the end of the day, though, why worry about whether ethanol-blend gasoline is good for the saw or not - if that's the only kind of fuel you can reliably buy, what choice do you have?

I worry... and it's not going in my saws. For the foreseeable future, there is a choice not to use it.

I know Stihl (and probably others) is working on a mix oil that will work with E85, but it's not on the horizon yet.

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Id like to run some of my Model R/C racing fuel in a saw one time..its NitroMethanol, with oil added.

30% Nitro...:jawdrop:

But I dont have the guts..

I wonder what it would do?


Doesnt methanol attract moisture?

 

[pallis]

Chrome lined saws should be okay. Alcohol and Nicasil don't mix well, or at least they didn't used to. I think my Solo and 7900 both came with warnings, but I don't think the 5100 did. ...Anyhow, for now, I can get good 101 octane fuel that isn't mixed with alcohol, so that's what I buy.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

There are different amounts of alcohol in fuels.
E85 is 85% Ethanol, 15% gasoline, and has an octane rating of 105.
It is very hard on rubber parts.
In my part of Wisconsin, we have 10% ethanol, which runs the saws slightly leaner than gas, but hasn't been a problem in the several years we've run it, just set the carb correctly.
In the counties outside a 5 county area of Milwaukee, they aren't required to sell gas with ethanol, just straight gas. Cars get better mileage on the straight gas (about 5 to 10%) and it is cheaper (about 5 to 10%). Gas stations on the bordering counties have flourished. People fill up before going into regulated areas, and drive from regulated areas to get the "good gas".
If you run regular gas and switch to 10% ethanol, you'll want to adjust the carb so it doesn't run to lean. I don't have any information on E85 in saws.
It makes me wonder about ethanol. Recent studies show it take something like 1.5 gallons of petroleum to make 1 gallon of ethanol, it costs more, and your vehicle gets worse mileage.
Same with Hydrogen fuel cell cars. Sure they can make cars, but the hydrogen takes more fossil fuel to make, than the hydrogen they get.

 

[Chainsaw Master]

Dosen't Shell advertise no alcohol? The biggest problem I've had with alcohol has been vapor-lock on some saws on hot days.
I've also worried about the carb diaphrams getting ate up, but haven't noticed any big problems with that.

 

[Lakeside53]

Storage over 60 days is the biggest problem with alcohol added fuels. The oil mix tends to separate and won't remix even when you shake it, and it absorbs water from the air.

 

[younggun]

corect me if im wrong, but dont some guys run race saws on alky?

 

[theXman]

wow, lots of good information here. thank you all. I'll be more careful with what gas I pump for now on.

i would think they would have to put big warning stickers on the pumps, or there could be lawsuits. The sticker I saw should have said "two stroke engine owners" and not just "boats" if it is hard on 2 strokes.

thanks!

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

This is an eye opener... I've noticed the ethanol stickers around here too. On top of that, I recently had a saw burn up. I wonder if this could have been a contribuing factor.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Storage over 60 days is the biggest problem with alcohol added fuels. The oil mix tends to separate and won't remix even when you shake it, and it absorbs water from the air.

Isn't it bad practice to use fuel that's over a few weeks old anyways?

 

[Lakeside53]

yes. Stihl says 90 days as a "rule of thumb". I sometime go over that, way over that, but start with Premium gas in Steel cans (I keep about 35 Gal on hand)..

 

[musch]

NO NO NO!

I would advise NOT to use ethanol or reformulated gas in any of your saws.
In the Milwaukee area, you cant get anything other than reformulated (10% ethanol, and MTBE)
I have gone through a totally clogged catalytic converter in my truck, and 2 damaged ones in my car.
Mechanics have stated that the fuel looks like the culprit.
Industry claims thats not so, but now that I'm in a different area, I run premium PURE gas in all my saws, ATV, as well as tractor.
EVERYTHING runs better as a result.

The other stuff will varnish, and take on moisture, and it burns like *#%$
It also diminishes gas mileage by about 10% - ironically.

I'll get off my soapbox now.
:taped:

 

[TopJimmy]

I will vote for the premium gas. I used to think that it was a waste of money to buy the premium. I used to work for an Amoco dealer. When the throttle body injection was common on vehicles, we used to change the gasket under the throttle body fairly regularly. The bottom of the throttle body usually had a fair amount of carbon build up on most every one I ever changed. I had to change one on the bosses suburban one day. He only ran the Amoco Gold gas. His looked like brand new. Absolutely no carbon buildup or any residue.

I don't run premium in my cars, but I do in my 2 stroke equipment.

Jim

 

[arnbobold]

Here in Illinois gas without ethanol is getting hard to find, since they make alot of it here. There are two stations here that carry it without it. They use to have it posted on the pumps, and a couple of weeks ago I noticed it wasn't posted. So asked them about it and they said by law they no longer have to post it. But they said if you ask us we will tell you if it has it or not. Here our Shell station all has ethanol in it. It also costs extra without ethanol by a nickel or more. I highly recommend nobody use it in 2-cycle engines at all! It eats rubber and gaskets. I would ask the attendants if there gas has ethanol in it before buying it. Alot of it has to do with location. The closer to the corn belt the more of it you will find. I went down to Tennesee and I didn't see any ethanol. To bad it isn't still ethel, like in the day of the good old red gas! Bob

 

[asb151]

A related story on this topic.

http://www.rep-am.com/story.php?id=5517

 

[PWB]

I won't say you guys are wrong, (and yes we got the stihl bulletin too) BUT for what it's worth I found out that the guys at work have been filling our saw cans from our vehicle pumps (5% ETHANOL) and have been. THe pumps were switched about two years ago, showed them the email from our fleet department. We run stihl mix (at 40:1) in 7 saws from 026 to 066, and a big stihl weed eater and pole saw. I carry a screwdriver and make sure they're rich enough, no one else does. Haven't burn't anything up yet. Our cutting by choice occurs when the weather is better (cooler) but storm damage means the saws often run during the worst part of the summer. (municipal road department) I buy non ethanol premium for myself at home, but we haven't had a problem with mid grade ethanol blend at work. Personally I think the big problem with ethanol is that it's an oxegenated fuel, and effectively leans out a saw that is set for a non ethanol fuel. Run it rich enough, we don't seem to have a problem. Only can remember having one carb apart to clean it up in the last few years on an 026, plugs on a regular basis in the 038's. No other engine problems.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Just because it's premium doesn't mean it doesn't have ethanol.