Evolution Of The Humboldt Face Cut

[madhatte]

I was looking through this book, copyrighted 1973, at my folks' house the other day, and noted from the photographs that very few of the loggers in those days were using Humboldts, except in Oregon. The WA, BC, ID, and AK sections all showed predominately conventional face cuts. Today, of course, nearly every pro uses the Humboldt almost exclusively. Does anybody know how this practice spread and when? The why is obvious enough; I just don't have any idea of the time line.

 

[clearance]

They used the conventional because they had to. Pretty hard to cut up with an axe. The Humboldt is better because the undercut is taken out of the stump, not the log. Also, the tree slides off and will not come back.

When saws got lighter, the Humbolt became the standard.

 

[madhatte]

I'm well familiar with the reasoning behind the different kinds of face cuts.

However, it had not occurred to me that saw weight would be such a factor in felling technique. The pictures I saw of guys cutting in the 1971-1973 era had them using big Macs and Stihls mostly, though I think I ID'd a Homelite as well. Those are ~20 lb saws dry, with extra weight added proportional to the bar/chain combo as well as fuel and oil. That makes them about twice as heavy as modern saws.

Sometime in the last 35 years, both of these changes occurred. Mike Acres' site does a great job of detailing the evolution of the chainsaw. Where can I go to read up on the parallel evolution of the rest of the equipment and procedures in the timber industry?

 

[Gologit]

I'm well familiar with the reasoning behind the different kinds of face cuts.

However, it had not occurred to me that saw weight would be such a factor in felling technique. The pictures I saw of guys cutting in the 1971-1973 era had them using big Macs and Stihls mostly, though I think I ID'd a Homelite as well. Those are ~20 lb saws dry, with extra weight added proportional to the bar/chain combo as well as fuel and oil. That makes them about twice as heavy as modern saws.

Sometime in the last 35 years, both of these changes occurred. Mike Acres' site does a great job of detailing the evolution of the chainsaw. Where can I go to read up on the parallel evolution of the rest of the equipment and procedures in the timber industry?

Try listening to old loggers. The best information is very seldom found in books.

 

[056kid]

I'm well familiar with the reasoning behind the different kinds of face cuts.

However, it had not occurred to me that saw weight would be such a factor in felling technique. The pictures I saw of guys cutting in the 1971-1973 era had them using big Macs and Stihls mostly, though I think I ID'd a Homelite as well. Those are ~20 lb saws dry, with extra weight added proportional to the bar/chain combo as well as fuel and oil. That makes them about twice as heavy as modern saws.

Sometime in the last 35 years, both of these changes occurred. Mike Acres' site does a great job of detailing the evolution of the chainsaw. Where can I go to read up on the parallel evolution of the rest of the equipment and procedures in the timber industry?

As far as heavy old saws go, in my experiences, once you get the old girl dogged in and makin headway in an undercut, you can let the powerhead weight do your work, you can even push on to the bottom of the pistol grip...


This would all be pullin up on the pistol grip with a saginaw face.
workin against Mr. Isaac newton's theories...


I like how the pies fall right out when the cutting is complete..

 

[Greystoke]

Try listening to old loggers. The best information is very seldom found in books.

Good Advice

 

[madhatte]

That is indeed good advice, and I will do exactly that.

 

[Jacob J.]

The Humboldt became the standard here in late 40's/early 50's with the advent of "modern" saws. There's several reasons for this but the main one is stump shot. The closing face of the Humboldt undercut acts as its own safeguard against stump shot, which is important on steep ground and big timber. On flat ground it isn't as much of a concern and you can get slightly more wood out of a conventional face.

 

[CanadianCarGuy]

Definately safer and more economical to use this technique. However without a bit of a step between the undercut and backcut, you loose any extra safety benefits that the humbolt cut has; especially if one is cutting the tree off the stump (steering the tree, or not paying attention). Sometimes if you are falling in heavy winds and the tree gets pushed into the standing timber as it is going over, the tree can still pop off the stump backwards, sometimes quite a few feet. Also the humbolt is actually EASIER to make, especially with the steeper ground we are working in today.

 

[WidowMaker]

====

CPG, is that you???

 

[Kiwilogger]

However without a bit of a step between the undercut and backcut, you loose any extra safety benefits that the humbolt cut has;

Dead right. I see a lot of falling videos where people make this mistake with every cut nearly.

If your customer allows a "cut face" then you lose less timber with a conventional scarf. In NZ, all timber, apart from veneer logs, and some pruned stuff, all sawlogs are allowed a 6" cut face. That is, the remnant of the scarf from a conventional cut, is allowed to be 6" in to the middle of the log, and no more than 12" down the log.

 

[madhatte]

Here's an interesting video:

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Notice the block-out face and Humboldt undercut chopped out with axes!

 

[RandyMac]

The oldest Humboldt stumps I have seen are on the Shively road, just south of Scotia, they date from the 1920s.

 

[dingeryote]

This is nothing but a shameless bump to keep things on the first page.. hoping one of the golden age guys chimes in.

Thanks for a heck of a good thread Madhatte!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[madhatte]

This is nothing but a shameless bump to keep things on the first page

You got me!

(also, thanks, man!)

The oldest Humboldt stumps I have seen are on the Shively road, just south of Scotia, they date from the 1920s.

OK, so how common was the practice then, and when/why was it used over the Saginaw/Conventional face back in the day?

 

[RandyMac]

You got me!

(also, thanks, man!)



OK, so how common was the practice then, and when/why was it used over the Saginaw/Conventional face back in the day?

It was common enough to see them while driving by at 30mph Next time I go through there, I'll snap a pic.
They/we, used the Humboldt, or derivative for up the hill falling, it made sure the dammed thing would leave the stump.

 

[komatsuvarna]

Great video Madhatte. Them guys had to be some tough son of a guns!!!!