Exposed tree roots

[gweezer]

Hi All, first post!

We have several trees on our property (maples, willow, spruce) that are very mature and well established. Over the years a lot of their root structure has now become exposed above ground level, as much as 10 inches in some places, especially on the willow. My question is can I simply "bury" the roots by covering over with a load of topsoil and trying to grow grass on top? Or will this harm the root function? What about covering with a "decorative" circle of mulch? TIA for any assistance.

 

[Rtom45]

If it were my willow, I'd cut it down - I hate willows in the yard, maybe along a stream but in a yard they're just a pain in the butt. I removed 3 large willows and a cottonwood from my yard over the course of several years.
With that being said, it has been my experience that you can bury the roots of a willow without noticeable decline as a result. If your maple is a norway I would say the same thing. I would mulch around the spruce. If it still has branches to the ground, do not remove them. Especially with spruce, if the lower branches are removed, the branches above will droop to the ground.

 

[treeseer]

yes, raising spruce is often harmful. re the others i would add some topsoil to level then mulch. planting grass will be a short term fix; roots would resurface.

 

[Newt*]

Gweezer, some trees have large surface roots as they mature. It's not wise to add more then 2" or so of soil. The roots will just rise again. You can also add a couple of inches of mulch. You should find these sites helpful.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/MG/MG08900.pdf
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/Garden/02926.html
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/trees_turf.aspx
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/mulching.aspx

Newt

 

[Highclimber OR]

dirt is a short term fix. The main thing you want to look for is root movement. If a majority of the root structure moves during a moderate blow, more than 1-2", I would go for a quick removal. In my experience that is a really bad sign. Other than that, hold on to what you got.

 

[Highclimber OR]

and yes they could be "Feeder" roots. they come to the surface for water, especially the willow which is a heavy water tree.

 

[gweezer]

Thanks for all the suggestions...I will check out those links.

Cutting down is not an option...my wife likes her trees to much!

These are definitely large surface roots that appear to be fixed in their current positions, there is no movement of them at all. They stretch out 8-10 feet from the trunk on the willow and 6-8 feet on the other two.

 

[marcos]

I'm running into this problem too...with a Crimson King Norway Maple in our own front yard.

A neighbor I ran into last fall, I believe during beggar's night festivities, showed me what he had done in his yard:
He'd taken a tool designed for scraping chunks of caked asphalt away; sort of a strait wooden rod with a 45 degree bend to it, and with a nice sharp tempered blade at the end...

And he went around in his yard and after a little bit of work lifting some soil out of the way, especially farther from the center of the radius, he carefully 'scarified' the tops of all the norway maple roots with this tool of his, bringing the actual level of them down in some cases, but in others, just 'scaring' the cambium layer.

It seems to have worked pretty well, according to him.
He said he did this about 3 years ago, and yes, the roots have indeed 'healed' back onto themselves a lot (a GOOD thing!)...but he says he's not really seeing any new roots surfacing like he had before.

I might give this a go this spring.
I hate groundcover beds under maples!

 

[BostonBull]

I'm running into this problem too...with a Crimson King Norway Maple in our own front yard.

A neighbor I ran into last fall, I believe during beggar's night festivities, showed me what he had done in his yard:
He'd taken a tool designed for scraping chunks of caked asphalt away; sort of a strait wooden rod with a 45 degree bend to it, and with a nice sharp tempered blade at the end...

And he went around in his yard and after a little bit of work lifting some soil out of the way, especially farther from the center of the radius, he carefully 'scarified' the tops of all the norway maple roots with this tool of his, bringing the actual level of them down in some cases, but in others, just 'scaring' the cambium layer.

It seems to have worked pretty well, according to him.
He said he did this about 3 years ago, and yes, the roots have indeed 'healed' back onto themselves a lot (a GOOD thing!)...but he says he's not really seeing any new roots surfacing like he had before.

I might give this a go this spring.
I hate groundcover beds under maples!

I am unsure what your level of Arboriculture is but this is one of the worst ideas I have seen on Arboristsite in a long time! Please dont do this to the poor tree.

Your buddy hasnt seen any new growth because the tree is putting all its sugars and time into repairing the scars and wounds that jackass made!

 

[marcos]

Those were my thoughts at 1st, too...
Actually, Tree Co and Boston Bull, the older fellow must have known a little something about what he was doing. He's probably in his late eighties, going on 90. He and his wife originally came from the rural south. (I wonder where he learned this ?!?)

But in his defense, when I walked around with him in his yard late last October and observed the thick surface roots he'd cut on, looking at them from above, they all looked as though they had healed quite well.

He gave me the impression that he is a very detail-oriented man, just in the time he spent walking around with me and talking about it, and having fun with the kids.

 

[marcos]

I am unsure what your level of Arboriculture is but this is one of the worst ideas I have seen on Arboristsite in a long time! Please dont do this to the poor tree.

Your buddy hasnt seen any new growth because the tree is putting all its sugars and time into repairing the scars and wounds that jackass made!

I said that he claimed he hasn't seen any new recurring surface roots.
The growth in the tree itself looks fine.

 

[marcos]

Excuse me, Tree Co ?

Are you saying that no one else out there has any other right ways of doing things besides what trained and professional people do?
That would be very close-minded...to say the least!

Geesh! Before you throw the concept into the fire, why don't you get off your high horse and think about it some!

This gentleman wasn't, by in large, scraping away at any smaller feeder roots, he was altering the height of the bald-top anchoring roots, from which the feeders emerge.
Explain to me how he harmed his tree!

( gee...thanks for showing my background, and then blasting me in the context...very professional of arborsite, wouldn't you say !?!)

 

[Newt*]

This link to Edward F. Gilman at the Univ. of Florida should help all to understand how improper root pruning of mature trees can cause failure. This first link is for all the links about root pruning.
http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/roots.html

This link has photo examples. Be sure to click on:
# Root pruning landscape trees, guidelines
# Root pruning landscape trees, precautions
# Root pruning landscape trees causes failure
# Root pruning street trees
http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/rootprunesummary.html

Here's what the growth from the cut ends looks like under the soil. This is from the first link under 'Root growth after planting'.
http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/rootgrowthends.html

Newt

 

[marcos]

My posting isn't from ArboristSite, it's from me, a working arborist. As a mod I could just edit out your advice....but that isn't happening.

Marcos I have thought about this subject for some time, like maybe for the past 25 years! I looked at your background and found it hard to believe that you are behind such advice. By the way anyone can look at your profile.

There is just no way to sugar coat that what you are suggesting is tree abuse. It's wrong. If practiced by an arborist that arborist could easily end up on the loosing end of a law suit. Part of my being a certified arborist is to slap down really stupid ideas....like the one you are propping up here.

You asked:
Explain to you how he harmed his tree?

Come on man, get real. Don't tell me that you've spent 25 years in the green industry and don't know that chopping off the tops of tree roots damage the tree.

Sorry...I thought "moderator" meant you WORKED for arborsite!

(Arborists know everything there is to know about trees...until they learn something new after some reading, experimentation, and / or research, right ?!?)

Well, I guess if you're not going to answer my question, you're not going to answer my question.
That's your purogative.

A theory I've contemplated is that the maple roots maybe began to put a lot of their energies into healing what they detected to be massive cankers on top their roots; so any new growth was focused on healing that, and not making newer surface roots.

Regardless, the fact remains that 3 or so years later, his norway maple tree is surviving and growing as nicely as ever.
And again, the man claimed to me that he's not seen any more surfacing roots whatsoever since his 'ametuer operation'.

If I do this, it will be in the fall, just like he did it.
Not the spring.
_____________

He and I were in agreement on one thing that night :
We didn't want any mulch under our respective norway maples.

He didn't want mulch because he and his wife sit under the tree in their chairs a lot in the summer.
I don't want mulch there because I've got too much landscape and mulch to deal with as it is already !

 

[marcos]

I have a feeling you will get your question answered but for now I'm stepping back from this heated debate and giving it some time so others have a chance to answer your questions.

Please don't take this as a suggestion for you to do the same because that is not my intent at all.

We do appreciate you expressing your opinions and ideas if I've been offending please accept my apology.

Don't worry though........I'm not going away.

Thanks,

Dan

Agreed...
Sorry about the confusion about you not being an arborsite employee...I didn't know.

After the snow melts, I'll take a stroll over there and ask if I can take a few digital pictures of the healed roots, and the tree itself, as it's coming into leaf; or maybe even later in full leaf.
(It's in their back yard...so it's not like I'll want to creep around there with a camera, without asking...)

 

[BostonBull]

Marcos your a JackA$$! and I mean it.

I will answer your question, your wrong! Everything about this situation is wrong!

Look at some of Shigos studies from when he first started out doing research. See what he had to say, BACK THEN! and still till his death about root pruning.

Would you skin the bark off of the TRUNK of a tree? This tree may have CODIT (calloused as you call it ), but I can guarantee you will see crown die-back as a result of this dunce!

There is no way you have the experience you claim to in your profile. Maybe the turf part of it, and nursery salesman, thats it!

 

[treeseer]

There is just no way to sugar coat that what you are suggesting is tree abuse. It's wrong. ...Don't tell me that you've spent 25 years in the green industry and don't know that chopping off the tops of tree roots damage the tree.

Dan, are you mything something here? :censored: I would not be surprised to see good codit in those roots. But you are right; cutting root slengthwise is opening them to infection. And, any "healing" tissue that is added will be at a level that displease the owner.

I'd be more inclined to prune the roots off cleanly where they get too high, and add soil alongside the others.

 

[Ed Roland]

Isn't it interesting how we, as working pro's, bristle at the idea of pruning surface roots flush when the whole "man over nature" thing is largely accepted by many of us in the form of bonsai, espalier or even pleaching or pollarding?

I could... possibly... open up to such a drastic recommendation if the plant were in supreme health and susceptible to mycor. innoculation to increase root density.

strange.

 

[ronnyb]

Marcos- even though tree roots contain subarin (a waxy susbstance that resists decay) scalping the roots as you describe will open them to decay, which will eventually lead to the loss of your tree. A Norway maple produces an immense amount of shade, to the point that no grass will grow (even hostas for that matter). Once the ground is devoid of grass, it will erode. The loss of soil (even on flat ground) will lead to even more exposure of the roots. A remedy for this situation is mulch. If you don't like mulch, and still want grass, your option is then to raise the tree. Crown thinning will not help on this species of tree. Basically, you can not thin a Norway maple enough to provide enough sunlight to pass through the remaininng canopy to grow grass. By raising the crown though, you provide extra sunlight during dawn and dusk. Check out Dr John Ball on this.

 

[Kogafortwo]

I started putting mulch under just about every tree I have, large or small, based on the advice of our professional arborist who does our live oaks. It prevents trimmer damage, keeps the roots safe, allows the tree to draw more water instead of giving it all to the turf grass, and it looks nice if you do it properly.
And with the drought we had in South Carolina this past year, the mulch really kept stuff going on less water.

So do what the arborists say: leave the roots alone and use good mulch.