fair dollar split?

[leonardo]

need input from you small time firewood sellers. my brother and i have a small firewood business. we sell 1/3 cord units for $70.00, customer picks up. he is on disability and can only do firewood work for about 1 hour a day before the back and hip pain does him in. it is his land and his wood. I bought a compact tractor with fel, bucket and forks. a 22 ton speeco splitter, an ms260 and an ms441. I buy the 2 cycle mix, bar oil, chaps, hearing and eye protection, get chains sharpened. i perform or pay for maintenance and repairs on saws, splitter and tractor. i get the wood out, buck, split and stack almost 100% of the wood. he uses the tractor to plow snow at his place, mow his fields and uses it for food plot work. he buys 2/3 of the diesel fuel for the tractor. oh yeah, he heats his house with wood from my effort. he collects the money. i think i should get $55-$60 per unit sold while he wants 25%. what do you guys think is a fair split?

 

[TMFARM 2009]

It all depends on your family relationship.... Do you work elsewhere? How well do you get along? Do you need the money more then he does? Thats all a factor for me any how... Personally i have bit the bullet a lot of times for my family,and haven't gotten anything in return when i needed help. Its a call you need to make for yourself. Sometimes its better to take the high road... But i can tell ya nice guys finish last in business..i lost two businesses from being nice to people and helping them out too much...how much expense can you incur before it takes you under financially?this is a life lesson i learned the hard way.. A true partnership should be 50/50 expenses and all but it sounds as if the labor issue isn't able to. This is the kinda thing that destroys relationships between family members though so think it through.

 

[sloth9669]

take out and pay 100% of all the expenses. Whatever is left split 50/50. Your time and work. His wood and land.

 

[loadthestove]

take out and pay 100% of all the expenses. Whatever is left split 50/50. Your time and work. His wood and land.

My dad and I have been partners in a business for 22 years now.we do basically the same thing, pay expenses,split whats left 50/50.I understand you thinking about doing majority of work for half the money but what would cost be if you had to go somewhere else to get you wood .

But above all things,,make sure your agreement is perfectly clear for both of you, that way there will be no misunderstanding later.

 

[Mntn Man]

It all depends on your family relationship.... Do you work elsewhere? How well do you get along? Do you need the money more then he does? Thats all a factor for me any how... Personally i have bit the bullet a lot of times for my family,and haven't gotten anything in return when i needed help. Its a call you need to make for yourself. Sometimes its better to take the high road....

I agree. If I let it get to me, I wouldn't be talking to any of my family. I personally take the satisfaction of knowing that I help out and ask nothing in return. By some good fortune, my wife and I are the only ones from either family that haven't had to be helped out. It is something we take pride in. We sometimes get the short end of the stick, but at least it is saving someone else from getting it. I would rather people feel like they owe me than me feel like I owe them.

You just need to talk it out and find a level that you can both be happy with or not do it at all. A few dollars is not worth a family feuding. My brother lost 3 years of our family just out of stubborn stupidity. I know he would tell you to make sure you work it out.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

What's the stumpage rate?

Check around in your area. Depending upon what the going rate is for wood on the stump, $50 a cord may be reasonable, especially since you don't have to carry insurance or front a damage deposit.

Another plus, you can leave the equipment on the job without fear of it disappearing. That peace of mind alone can be worth a lot.

The final decision on how to handle the situation is up to you, just be sure to look at all angles before saying, or doing, anything that may come back and bite you.

Take Care

 

[atlarge54]

With you providing his firewood and the tractor to mow and remove snow plus you doing all the labor I think the deal is tilted in his favor. When you cut wood are you clearing trails and culling bad trees which improves the quality of his property. Seems to me you could ask more of him even with disabilities----leave the saws in the garage when done so he could clean, fuel and sharpen.

 

[msvold]

take out and pay 100% of all the expenses. Whatever is left split 50/50. Your time and work. His wood and land.

This seems to be the best advice IMO. I have a brother in law on disability, and believe me, if he could work and help out he would. Your efforts are helping him realize small business practices from his wood and land which allow him to supplement his disability pay. Could you imagine a limited income for the rest of your life without any other means to supplement and try to make things better?

 

[1harlowr]

Your equipment, your labor, and you cut his wood???? If you can live with 75/25% to keep family harmony, that's fine.
I wouldn't do a 75/25 even if it's his wood. You have so much invested in equipment that 75% won't ever pay for.
If he was paying you 75% of the $70 you charge for the wood that might be a more even trade. Maybe $50 per 1/3 cord he uses. With him burning the wood for free that you cut, you aren't even getting 75% of the whole years' sales.
Better work something out that BOTH of you feel is fair or there will be hard feelings in the family down the road.

Friends, family, and business are hard to mix.

This past Sunday my brother did about 5 hrs of welding for me. He didn't expect anything for it. I didn't give him anything except if he needs something all he has to do is ask. I give his young son (my nephew) a $60 game when I left.

 

[John R]

This is something that should have be decided long before you bought all the equipment.
Businesses with family usually don't work out to good.
If he's using your tractor to plow his drive and mow, he should buy ALL the fuel for the tractor.

 

[rmihalek]

take out and pay 100% of all the expenses. Whatever is left split 50/50. Your time and work. His wood and land.

I have to give an Amen! to this: the perfect solution. (You just need to hope there is actually some money left after the expenses!)

 

[svon89]

How much was the tractor? How many hours are spent mowing? Around here I know several guys who make extra money mowing fields. Usually $50/hr. Is there any agreement to who pays for repairs if something happens while he is using it?

As someone who has gone out of his way to help family in the past, I can say be carefull. I helped a family memeber out, gave him a trailer, and then a log splitter when I got my new one. I dropped wood for him when he didn't have any. Then found out he needed money so he sold the splitter and trailer. When I gave him the splitter it was with the statement, you can use it for as long as you like, but it is mine.... The nice guy finishes last in many families.

 

[indiansprings]

In his condition I would give him 25% and just thank God I could help him.
It may not make financial sense but it makes family sense. Life is short, I can tell you from personal expierence that family is a hell of alot more important that money or material things. You'll be rewarded in the end.

 

[rwbinbc]

When I cut tops, We pay $15 per truckload. Then We split 50 50 after costs for everything. The other guy burns the wood We cut, So when He needs wood He pays Me for half of what He takes. Its not fair to give Him wood and share profits. How much wood are You selling vs. Him using. Alot of guys cut tops for shares, Two to One. For every cord He uses You should get two cord worth for You to sell. The tractor, IDK. Best Luck. I dont think its fair, Not even close.

 

[tanker]

In his condition I would give him 25% and just thank God I could help him.
It may not make financial sense but it makes family sense. Life is short, I can tell you from personal expierence that family is a hell of alot more important that money or material things. You'll be rewarded in the end.

You nailed that one on the head.The older I get,the more I appreciate my family.It all comes back tenfold when I can sleep with a clear conscience. Scott