Firewood Sellers Survey

[Circle B MN]

Gentlemen, I am conducting a bit of market research for my own personal use and would appreciate your input. Two easy questions for you.....

1. On average, how many cords per year do you process and sell WITH OUT the use of an automated processor.? I'm talking blocking wood with saws and manually feeding it to the splitter.

2. How many cords on average would you have to sell regularly before you would consider investing in a firewood processor whether it be a Chomper, TW, CordKing, Hahn's etc...? or are you content doing business without..?

Thanks..

 

[RAMROD48]

I do an average of 50-75 cords a year....I would love to have a processor right now...but would want to purchase it outright so it doesnt have to be paying for itself...

My plan is 100 this year and I am in the process of building a processor of sorts...

 

[woodman6666]

I used to do around 100 full cords a year by myself and then I got some type of automated processor. If you are alone I would think somewhere around 100 full cords would be the time to make the jump but thats just my 2 cents.

 

[indiansprings]

We are selling 370-420 cords a year with no processor.....but we are using four sometimes five people and two hydraulic splitters.
I plan on owning a super split in the next couple of months.

I can see the day where we are out of the business, due to the boys leaving the nest, that is the primary reason I don't invest in some type of processor.

Secondly you can hire all the labor you need here for 8.00 an hour, knowing I will not be in the business three to four years from now if not sooner, cheap labor is a better short term strategy.

Wood prices here won't support the expense of a processor, too many out of work guys selling wood.

I'd look at a super split.

 

[flyboy553]

I sold around 65 full cord last season, and burned around 15. I don't know if a processor would be profitable. All the complimentary equipment it would take would be cost prohibitive.
Not to mention, skidding the logs out to a landing in this sand country would make for a lot of dirt in the bark. Much cheaper to just buck it in to rounds, load the truck with the bobcat and bring it back to the splitter. I have a 4 way for that, but six way would be nice to have for efficiency. Next splitter will have a hydraulic 4 or 6 way on it.
Ted

 

[chucker]

#1. anymore its around 125 to 150 full cords per year! all cut split by hand, other than a 20 ton hyd h/v duerr splitter... #2. never had a processer, so dont know what im missing or would be gaining! so for me as a single wood business person i will stay at it alone untill times get better and profits.. good ole hard work seems to be where were all headed anyways!

 

[Wood Doctor]

Not for Me

1. I sell about 15 cords per year without any automated processor. That includes both truckloads and bundles.

2. I am content doing business without an automated processor because that means I would have to quadruple my sales and add at least two more men and a truck to my staff for delivery to justify it.

In short, the automated processor would be a commitment in both men and at least another truck to make it cost effective. Now you are talking $50,000 at least plus the cost of the processor, and that's a lot of wood to sell to pay for it--more than I want to spend.

Plus, you also assume that sources of supply for good hardwoods will always be there for the taking within the market area. That assumption is huge.

It's fun to find, cut, and process a small quantity of firewood on a part-time basis. The minute you buy big equipment like a processor, it becomes a full-time job and is likely to get old rather fast.

 

[TMFARM 2009]

if i where going to invest in a processor, i would get the skid steer type...just my 2 cents.. you could process at the site instead of having to bring it all back and re handle it... process it straight to the bed of the trailer...
but as of now we will not be selling any this year..

 

[tomtrees58]

1 i cut 100 full cords a year for #2 we cant we are a tree service the wood comes in big 50" dba to 8 " knotty ect

 

[woodman6666]

I am curious why you would have to add two more men? I have no men just me myself and I and I have had a processor for over 15 years. To me the processors take the place of hired help.

 

[Junkrunner]

I'm small-time, last year I did around 25 full cords. Being that I cut tops and dead standing, a processor wouldn't be practicle for me.

 

[Circle B MN]

Thanks for the input men. Seems most of you are content to operate without a processesor, but at the same time few of you are in the 100+ cord per year market. I currently run a SS and block wood, but I am racing toward the 100+ mark and looking to the future. I'm at a point now where I have more demand than I do supply, and that is after I raised my prices. Will it last forever..? Will it last past next week..? Don't know, but you gotta stick your neck out there from time to time if you want to get anywhere. Just not sure if a processor would be the right investment or if I need to invest in refining my current process. Thanks again.

 

[Circle B MN]

1. I sell about 15 cords per year without any automated processor. That includes both truckloads and bundles.

2. I am content doing business without an automated processor because that means I would have to quadruple my sales and add at least two more men and a truck to my staff for delivery to justify it.

In short, the automated processor would be a commitment in both men and at least another truck to make it cost effective. Now you are talking $50,000 at least plus the cost of the processor, and that's a lot of wood to sell to pay for it--more than I want to spend.

Plus, you also assume that sources of supply for good hardwoods will always be there for the taking within the market area. That assumption is huge.

It's fun to find, cut, and process a small quantity of firewood on a part-time basis. The minute you buy big equipment like a processor, it becomes a full-time job and is likely to get old rather fast.

Thanks for your input, but I think your numbers are off. I say that constructively and for the purpose of discussion. We all have our own opinions. I also feel your reply is directed to the guy we see here every few weeks with one saw and a little pickup. You give good advice for a man in that position, I'll pass it along next time I see him...:wink2:

100 cord a year, in my opinion, is an obtainable and manageable goal even for a part time seller. You will stay busy at it for sure, but it is do able. If you are happy at 15 cord a year then you are doing things right, stick with it.

$50k in todays market would by you two or three nice trucks. More than you would need. Much nicer than you would need. I have a couple of trucks and trailers sitting idle at the moment, so I'll go ahead and check that box off....:wink2:

I have no interest in having an employee. Been there done that. At some point you have no choice but to hire help, but I would do my best to avoid that. Number one business hassle...employees. Like having two wives. Once again my opinion....:smile2:

I am comfortable with the amount of timber there is here in central MN. The area has been involved in the timber business for many years. Were I located in more of a plains state I would be concerned.

What job doesn't get tiring..? I've had some really good jobs in the past and at times they have gotten tiring. Step back, take a day off, regroup and go do it again. It is work. Work often times is hard. That part is a fact.

:msp_thumbup:

 

[STLfirewood]

If fuel prices stay up I'll either be building a processor or buying one. It makes buying logs a good deal with fuel being so high. By the time I go to the wood with the skid steer and trailers I might as well buy a load of logs. I can still buy wood around here cheeper then running a processor. The only problem is the guy is slow sometimes or effected by the weather. I might start selling wood local. I would want a processor for that. Wood sells around here for $165-180 a cord. I drive a few miles and sell it for $300-$330. But selling local those are pick up prices and I wouldn't have much in fuel expenses.

Scott

 

[Circle B MN]

Log loads are fairly cheap here in my opnion compared to the time and effort it takes to go out and harvest your own. $80 a cord for oak logs, delivered. In other parts of the country that may not seem like too good a deal, but around here it is.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

Love to buy log loads at $80/cord

Last time I checked the going rate around here is $800/truck delivered with a guarantee of 7 cord minimum.

Back to the processor question. I am currently in the 30 to 40 cord area. If I had a skid steer I might consider going that route with a processor. Wallenstein has a manual processor in the $10,000 range that I've seen operate. It was OK, but I wouldn't jump on one. The other thought I had and this is your risk decision, splitters and saws are easy to move for cash with a minimal loss God forbid you can't do firewood for whatever reason. A processor is difficult to sell, let alone at a decent price because the market is very limited. It's a piece of equipment that depreciates fast and takes a long time to move should you need to unload it. Just a little food for thought.

Take Care

 

[leon]

firewood and processors

With regard to firewood processors and desired profitability;


You could invest in a Chomper Simplex 14 PTO model that is tractor
powered or the smallest simplex which is powered by a gasoline engine.


The Simplex 14 PTO unit is the least costly Chomper and can be
automated if desired.


I did not buy a Simplex 14 simply because I could not find dependable
local log loads otherwise I would have purchased one.

As I have posted previously about sheared firewood,
the United States goverment through the D.O.E.,
proved in its published study (which I uploaded here)the sheared
wood dries faster than split wood.

The Chomper has a very short cycle time when shearing 12 inch firewood.


Strictly examining the issue of price and versatility the Chomper eliminates
the need to have a live deck, and a machine to load the live deck, and any
further need for a circular or chain saw bucking method.

The Chompers winch cable allows you to winch your logs to the shearer
eliminating any need for a log length transport method.

The Chomper has a debris screen which eliminates any loose bark or dirt as well.

Before any one starts screaming about the fire wood logs being dragged through
the mud your selling a very labor intensive product and the dirt does not matter;
BECAUSE they are always DRAGGED to a log landing AND SORTED by the
grapple operator, so in no way is more dirty firewood is a legitimate argument
when you are selling firewood period unless you own a forwarder with a log bunk,
or have access too one!!

Why work harder than you have to?, thats all I have been saying.opcorn:

 

[chucker]

"Why work harder than you have too?, thats all I have been saying. " why work harder, ?? probably because thats what i have done all my farm and woods life an all i really know how to do with out some else telling me that theres an easier way to do it ! hard work never killed anyone, just stupidity!! machines are fine if you like them ...not me... by takeing it easy this fine long winter ive gained the upper part of a dunlop !! needing to work it off is a good healthy way to cheat out the gym fees some like to pay. this saveings can and does buy me a new saw every year if needed!! most of us here jusy plain and simple like the work and the better outdoors... but right now i need to eat somemore?? lol:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[allagashwoods]

using a processor

Hi I sell about 200 cords a year and this winter bought a blockbuster 15-20. It will take 17 inch logs 20 ft. long.I thought this would be the greatest thing since sliced bread,but I was wrong.It's not the blockbuster's fault,it was my expectations of how it would change what and how I do things.I have 2 supersplitters,a skidsteer and a 28 ft.conveyor.I can take logs and bring them to the splitter,block them up and load or stockplie the wood,any size big or small.With a processor you need the right size logs all the time in order to make any volume.I now went back to using the supersplit setup and when I get the right size logs I will plie them and use the processor when I have enough to warrant moving the conveyor and set it under the processor.I would not sell the processor,it's paid for but if I had to do it over I would have spent the money on a kiln instead.
Thanks,Len

 

[Circle B MN]

Hi I sell about 200 cords a year and this winter bought a blockbuster 15-20. It will take 17 inch logs 20 ft. long.I thought this would be the greatest thing since sliced bread,but I was wrong.It's not the blockbuster's fault,it was my expectations of how it would change what and how I do things.I have 2 supersplitters,a skidsteer and a 28 ft.conveyor.I can take logs and bring them to the splitter,block them up and load or stockplie the wood,any size big or small.With a processor you need the right size logs all the time in order to make any volume.I now went back to using the supersplit setup and when I get the right size logs I will plie them and use the processor when I have enough to warrant moving the conveyor and set it under the processor.I would not sell the processor,it's paid for but if I had to do it over I would have spent the money on a kiln instead.
Thanks,Len

Very good input. Thank you sir.