First milling and Chain questions

[OcoeeG]

Hey guys, I got out to do some of my first real milling the other day. A 11' long 15" dia. oak. Nice and straight and branch free. (pics to follow). Two things that happened. The surface of the cut was really rough, large gouges. And my chain seemed to dull rather quickly. The last 5 feet of the second cut was SLOW. Not sure the exact name to describe the type of chain, but it is one that only has cutting teeth every 2 or 3 links. Could this be the reason for the dulling and gouging? Also, what is everyone's preferred ripping chain, I think I am going to go that route. Saw one on baileys for like .18$ a link. Any help is appreciated.

 

[dustytools]

I use the ripping chains from Baileys and they work fine for me. They are about half the cost of the Granberg chains and perform just as well IMO.

 

[mtngun]

+1 on the Bailey's ripping chain.

 

[Backwood]

I also use the ripping chain from baileys and like it.
You would get some gouging using skiptooth chain. I have used skiptooth thinking it would be a lot faster but couldnt tell a lot of difference in the speed between skip and ripping chain. Ripping chain gave a better finish.

 

[slabmaster]

Ripping chain works best for me also.Grandberg has a skip version of ripping chain that out performs regular ripping chain.It's not really a skip,but every 2 cutters are thinned down and sharpened on a steeper angle, i think 35 degrees.Anyhow,that chain is alot faster in the cut and gives a smooth finish as well.I started milling with regular milling chain but now i'm spoiled with the granberg chain and that's all i use now.It saves me more time and is easier on the saw as well!

 

[oldsaw]

If you are using regular chain, that will happen. Ripping chain gives better results as far as finish, and will stay sharper longer. Regular chain will cut faster initially, but as you found out, peters out in the end.

mark

 

[woodshop]

Sounds like you have skip tooth chain there... which is what I use for milling. If you want smoother surface yes ripping chain will give you that as said. I found ripping chain would actually get dull faster though, and it was definitely slower. I run my rough lumber through the planer after it has dried, and a slightly rougher surface is no big deal to me. The chain I use to mill is Oregon 75 JG round chisel skip... after trying several, I found it was the most aggressive and the fastest down the log in big (over 25" wide) cuts. I like it so much I bought a 100' roll. Quicker to sharpen also having half as many teeth. But yes, if you're looking for smoother surface, go with Baileys ripping chain, which is what I used to use.

You'll find different guys here with different setups and conditions will have different results when it comes to these kinds of things. You'll have to find what is best for your setup and the kinds and sizes of wood you are most likely to mill.

 

[hazard]

Are you getting enough oil on the bar. I notice quickly if there is no oil. Cutting grinds to a very slow pace

Chris

 

[OcoeeG]

Truthfully, I don't think I am getting enough oil on the bar. I am using an old 056 av- 32" bar with the oiler turned all the way up. When I am just reving it to make sure it is oiling and the chain is to a good tension I can pull back the chain and see plenty of oil. But while I am milling do the same thing it seems quite dry. I am going to make a aux. oiler tonight. Probably not going to drill the bar just have it drip on the bar/chain point. I think that will make a big difference. Cause today I did some red cedar and it was still a bit slow. Will let you know how it goes.
CG

 

[BIG JAKE]

Sounds like you have skip tooth chain there... which is what I use for milling. If you want smoother surface yes ripping chain will give you that as said. I found ripping chain would actually get dull faster though, and it was definitely slower. I run my rough lumber through the planer after it has dried, and a slightly rougher surface is no big deal to me. The chain I use to mill is Oregon 75 JG round chisel skip... after trying several, I found it was the most aggressive and the fastest down the log in big (over 25" wide) cuts. I like it so much I bought a 100' roll. Quicker to sharpen also having half as many teeth. But yes, if you're looking for smoother surface, go with Baileys ripping chain, which is what I used to use.

You'll find different guys here with different setups and conditions will have different results when it comes to these kinds of things. You'll have to find what is best for your setup and the kinds and sizes of wood you are most likely to mill.

Woodshop how does the JG perform on doug fir and pine? What angle do you sharpen your cutters for this purpose? I may try some of that chain.

 

[BobL]

In 16" logs I don't think oiling is your problem - it sounds like your chain is just not set right. If you run the saw at WOT for about 10 seconds does oil spin off the end of the bar? Does the oil get used up at the same rate as the fuel? If not you have an oiling problem that needs fixing but it shouldn't affect cutting in a 16" log.

I assume you have carefully sharpened the chain and set the rakers immediately before milling? I ask this because nearly every milling wannabe I have met assumes their chain, including one that was so dull it couldn't cut a 4" branch, could be used for milling. "Sure I sharpened the chain last year"!

Whatever you mill, the chain should be RAZOR sharp. I have learned I cannot judge the chain sharpness by feel so I use a magnifying glass to make sure there no glinting on any of the cutting edge. I set my raker height to be 1/10 of the gullet width, it gives a slightly rougher finish but good cutting speed. I also use a 13/64" file instead of 3/16" on 3/8 chain since this gives the cutters a bit more bite on tough Aussie hardwood. Using this file size the cutters dull a little quicker but on big (30"+) hardwood I touch up the chain after every slab anyway.

For me, the smoothest surface is obtained using full comp rip ground chain and with rakers slightly higher than usual (1/12th gullet) and NOT pushing the saw. Milling is slower but finish is very smooth.

Sure they take longer to sharpen but since they have more teeth per unit length, full comp chains also does not dull as quickly as skip chain. I don't know why anyone would bother using skip chain for small logs. I thought the whole idea about skip chain is to allow for sawdust clearance sawing big logs?

 

[excess650]

I made 9 cuts up to 30" wide and 7' long in oak without sharpening the chain. This was with Stihl full skip chain. While the cuts seemed to chatter progressively more, I may well have been pushing the saw too hard.

I suspect that you had a log with a lot of dirt on the exterior, or else it had sucked up a lot of silica when growing.

Along those same lines I had felled and blocked a chesnut oak on my property in Va, and it ruined a new Stihl chain pretty quickly. This was about 24" dbh, but really ate a good chain quickly. The problem there seems to be the soil the trees are growing in.

BobL, skip chain also puts less cutters in the wood, so has less tendency to to bog the saw down. I do think it vibrates more than full comp.

 

[BobL]

I made 9 cuts up to 30" wide and 7' long in oak without sharpening the chain.

That makes sense since Australians consider something like oak as a softwood compared to most of the stuff we have to mill.

BobL, skip chain also puts less cutters in the wood, so has less tendency to to bog the saw down.

Sure I understand that, but at 16" there are the same number of full comp cutters in the log as a skip at 32", I don't think full comp is going to be bogging down saws that much in small logs.

I do think it vibrates more than full comp.

yep agree.

 

[corsair4360]

Skip vs Full Comp Chain

As others said, full comp is fine up to about 20" cut or so. Why, read on.

The general rule for saws of any kind, is that the space between teeth (the gullet is the term used in circular saw blades) needs to be able to contain the chips from the cut length x width x depth x 80% density. That is a general statement for circular saw design, and would generally apply to a chain saw, even though many things are very different. For cuts more than 20" or so, skip tooth chain provides the space for the chips. Otherwise the chips try to escape around the next tooth or reduce the depth of due to clogging as the tooth is pulled along the cut which means the saw does not cut efficiently.

One of the threads I read on this site was a very fascinating one by a man from northern California regarding racing chains where one of the major parts of making his chains was reducing the width of the cut, and making for more volume between the teeth.

It is interesting that all saws, regardless of type have three cutting actions, all which affect the power required for the cut, and the quality of the cut. First is the depth gauge which sets how deep the cut is in chip removal, second is the scoring on the side (the corner on a chisel chain) and the chip clearing (the flat portion of the cutter).

Depth gauge setting in different woods and conditions make this a big variable which only experience can guide you. The manufacturer's recommendation is a general one which may not apply in your situation. As some have noted, cutting trees with very dense wood like some of the Australian species or some of our US hardwoods call for a different depth gauge setting than soft pine or fir. In addition, if the wood is frozen that complicates matters a bit also.

When I logged in Utah cutting mostly subalpine fir and some rocky mountain douglas fir in the summer we used to run the depth gauges set a little lower than generally recommended with the xp1000 I used and the 30" bar which was short for that monster.

 

[woodshop]

Woodshop how does the JG perform on doug fir and pine? What angle do you sharpen your cutters for this purpose? I may try some of that chain.

Have not milled much doug fir as it doesn't grow around here naturally although there is some, but have milled lots of white pine and SYP (southern yellow pine). SYP is on the hard side as pines go. Harder than white pine and most firs. Like redcedar, milling most softwoods is generally faster than the oak/cherry/maple/walnut. I sharpen the cutters same as the Oregon 75JG comes from the factory... 30 degrees I think (or is it 25?, forget) Bobl and others are correct, for small logs skip is unnecessary, and it does chatter a bit more, but I found not excessively or to the point where I really notice it and see it as a problem. The main problem with skip is it does leave a pretty rough surface, more so than even standard full comp round ground chisel, which I also have milled with. As I said, I love it because it seems to go longer between sharpenings than the Baileys milling chain I was using, and it is definitely faster down the log, noticeably so. For me, that was what I was looking at since I'm only using the csm to get the log to a cant.

 

[BIG JAKE]

Interesting what you say about yellow pine. As I recall, southern yellow pine had the highest btu by volume of the pines(equates to density & weight). Ponderosa wasn't ranked in that study but is considered a yellow pine. Who cares right. I'll have to try some of the JG i don't care about finish and the rough sawn look around here is desireable as it lends an atmosphere of times past. I can plane it if If I want smooth. Thanks for input