First semi-serious milling today!

[madrone]

I've messed around with the alaskan on small wood before but today I tried it out on some bigleaf maple for some flooring in the barn. We milled 11' planks at 5/4. Man it goes slow. The 36" bar is all I have and it's running with square ground sharpened at 0-5º, (by hand).
Among other questions I have is #1, does milling always take this long? It took about 10 min. per cut. I'm a good sharpener but maybe 0-5º is just too fine a cut? The 090 spent a tank of mix per cut. It's running very well but this is alot of fuel. Granted, I got alot of wood for 3 gallons of gas plus oil, no complaints, I'm just wondering if I could be doing this differently.
Any input is appreciated.

 

[rube2112]

I've messed around with the alaskan on small wood before but today I tried it out on some bigleaf maple for some flooring in the barn. We milled 11' planks at 5/4. Man it goes slow. The 36" bar is all I have and it's running with square ground sharpened at 0-5º, (by hand).
Among other questions I have is #1, does milling always take this long? It took about 10 min. per cut. I'm a good sharpener but maybe 0-5º is just too fine a cut? The 090 spent a tank of mix per cut. It's running very well but this is alot of fuel. Granted, I got alot of wood for 3 gallons of gas plus oil, no complaints, I'm just wondering if I could be doing this differently.
Any input is appreciated.

Yeah thats about the way it goes........it is very slow. You should try a winch to pull the saw instead of pushing it......that is quicker and much easier on you. Robb

 

[peterrum]

Here is some information I copied and pasted here for you to think about. Maybe it is the type of chain you are using. I have never cut maple so can't comment on the length of time it takes but I cut softwood and it would take about two minutes to cut the distance you did. I liked your photos.

Smooth Lumber at slightly lower speed:
To produce smooth lumber with sawdust extremely fine ( it will blow away in the wind ) you must use a full house standard chain ( the most teeth ). You can purchase standard crosscut chain with the teeth at 35 degree angle or oregon rip chain with the teeth at a 10 degree angle and modify it to produce the smoothest lumber. To modify the above chain you choose a tooth and file it to 0 degrees ( straight across ) and only take off enough to get the tooth angle changed to 0 degrees. Measure the length of this modified tooth with calipers or adjustable wrench, then file all the teeth to the 0 dgree angle and the same length. you measure the tooth and file the rest to the same length so that all the teeth are the at the same height. If you look at a tooth from the side you will see that it is angled up towards the cutting edge, so as you file the tooth and it gets shorter, it also gets lower. If any of the teeth are longer than the others, therefore higher, only these teeth would be doing most of the cutting. This would create a judder and vibration in the saw and a much slower cutting speed. This is not as hard as it sounds, just get all the teeth the same length and all at 0 degrees or straight across.
Rough lumber but faster milling speed:
Full skip chain has the lowest amount of teeth and there is a lot of companies out there producing or modifying chain for milling lumber. It obviously takes a shorter amount of time to sharpen this chain as there is a lot less teeth, but it will need the larger size chainsaws to drive this chain, as it takes more power to mill lumber. Some companies use full complement standard chain and remove every other tooth, but leave the angle of the remaining teeth up to 15 degrees, this is to agressive for milling lumber, and under no circumstances should teeth be more than 10 degrees angle. It is very important that all the teeth are all the same height, length, and angle. There are far less teeth in the full skip chain so just 1 tooth slightly higher than the other is hard on the chain, bar and saw, as this 1 tooth would be taking out a bigger bite, and with no supporting teeth ahead or behind creates a very bad vibration in the saw and grooves in your lumber. The above is more critical in milling lumber than full house or standard chain. Full skip chain sharpened correctly will mill lumber at a faster speed, but it will be rougher, and the long fibre sawdust will pack around the saw and cleanup around the sawmill will be more of a chore. It is far more prone to vibration and is harder on the saw, only the larger chainsaws should use this full skip chain.

 

[Brmorgan]

Nice log - looks fairly clear too. 10 mins. for an 11' cut in maple might be a little on the long end but don't expect a huge improvement - maybe down to 8 mins. at the outside. 090s are absolute gas hogs too, though I think a tank per cut on that tree might be a bit too much - no way you should have burned 3 gal. on that job. I've cut entire fir trees that size on that much gas.

I certainly don't mean to insult your sharpening skillz as I obviously don't know them (must be better than me if you're doing square), but I thought I was pretty decent at it until I bought one of those Oregon sharpening jigs that you clamp onto the saw bar. Filing with that has made an enormous improvement in my cut times, as it's very easy to get all the teeth and rakers to the same length/height/angle every time. Not as accurate or easy as a grinder, and takes a lot longer, but the $35 I paid for the jig was well worth it. Saves you having to get out calipers and a protractor to get the depth and angle consistent as described in the clip that peterrum posted too. The first sharpening can take a long time depending on how evenly it was done by hand, but once everything is set the same, future sharpenings are very quick unless the teeth are damaged.

One thing to note also is that 090s have a fairly low RPM compared to modern saws and thus a slower chain speed. However unless you're burying that 36" bar, they have loads of torque to spare, so you have some options to improve the cutting speed. The easiest way might be to just lower your rakers .005" or .010" to make the chain a bit more aggressive. I personally don't like this option so much because it permanently modifies the chain, and in bigger wood the chain will bog the engine down more easily which often results in ugly gouges in the wood when the chain bites in hard. The other option is to just put a bigger sprocket on to increase the chain speed directly. This is more versatile - big wood, small sprocket & vice-versa - and I would submit easier on the saw engine too. I run 8-pin 33" .404 at the moment on my 090 and will hopefully be setting it up with 9-pin 3/8 for the coming summer. I'm sure there are people on both sides of this one though.

Have you set the governor to its stiffest (fastest) setting yet? Mine on the default would kick in way too often, which just slowed things down because the RPMs were all over the place. With it at the stiffest setting it rarely ever engages in wood over 18". Don't worry about burning the saw up, just be sure to not hold it at WOT when it's out of wood completely.

 

[BobL]

It should not be that slow unless you are cutting very hard hardwood - I would class maple as a soft hardwood. I reckon I could cut that amount for about less than half of your consumption with my 076, and about a 1/3rd of the consumption using my mates 066.

I agree with Brad, Start by checking the rakers (use a digital caliper, I find those raker tools are pretty inaccurate), and make sure your cutters are all the same length - use a caliper for that as well.

I use full comp chain and make my raker depths 1/10th of the gullet widths, if I milled softwoods I would probably go even more aggressive that that, maybe 1/9th. Provided the cutters are sharp (sometimes I have to sharpen after every slab) I find this setting gives me chips - not dust - even in serious (Aussie) Hardwood. This weekend just past I cut a

 

[mountainlake]

It would be cheaper to hire someone with a bandsaw, considering the amount of wear and tear on your saw, gas, time and way less lumber out of the same log. Steve

 

[excess650]

Was that maple dry, or frozen? I would have expected it to be easier to cut if it were green.

The biggest, hardest wood that I've milled was dead, dry oak. The slabs ended up 7'9" long and up to 30" wide. I had to take my smaller saw and cut the bark and some wood from the sides so that my mill with 36" bar would just clear in spots.

I was running my 066 (with Bailey's big bore kit) 36" Stihl Bar with 3/8 .050 Stihl full skip, chisel chain(new) and 7 pin rim. Each cut took less than 1/2 tank. I didn't even think to time the cuts, and I was working by myself.

The full skip chain definitely causes vibratation and left a rougher finish than I would have liked.

When I milled dead, dry Hemlock using the same saw, full comp Stihl chisel chain and 8 pin rim, the saw just blasted through 8' planks up to 18" wide.

Conversely, when I tried milling the same Hemlock with my 272xp, and full chisel chain, it was MUCH slower than the 066, and used more fuel. The 066 probably cut 3-4 times as fast as the 272xp in the same wood.

The really interesting part was that the full comp, full chisel chain left a much smoother finish than the full skip chain did on the oak.

Pictures are from my very first outing with the mill:

http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/Eric_Stevens/milling/?action=view&current=hemlockbeam.jpg

http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/Eric_Stevens/milling/?action=view&current=hemlockbeam22.jpg

 

[excess650]

It would be cheaper to hire someone with a bandsaw, considering the amount of wear and tear on your saw, gas, time and way less lumber out of the same log. Steve

The beauty of the Alaskan mill is that lumber can be cut wherever the log is. More, is the satisfaction of doing it yourself, on your own terms.

 

[stipes]

Nice Maple!!!!

I been using a full comp at 10 degrees,and still gettin a pretty smooth cut...Last time I cut was a old oak 18 ft. long,,my boards 11 inches wide,,and 3/4 thick...I didnt time the cuts,,but seemd like it was going pretty fast for me,,and I would stop every few feet to let my saw idle out for a few seconds too...I got 2 cuts to a tank of gas with my saw...
Thanks for the pics!!! Thats some nice wood!!!

 

[madrone]

Thanks for all the replies. Man am I sore today. I stayed up way too late reading about ripping chains as I think that my angles must have been off for it to take that long and not come out with a nicer finish.
For starters my raker gauge is only .025, so I'll have to get another one to go deeper.
If my top plate angle was about 5º, I think my cutting angle must have been too flat. On Square ground what cutting angle do you guys use? Remember I'm hand filing.
Also, when I said 3 gallons for the job I didn't mention the other maple I worked. Maybe 1 1/2-2 g. was used on the big one giving me 8-9 11' cuts.
Also, Brad, the gov. is set as tight as it'll go. thx

 

[BlueRider]

I run an 8 pin on my 051 and my 075, both with .404 chain so you might even be able to run a 9 pin on your 090. and if you are running .375 chain you definately should be running a 9 pin just to get back the speed you lost in switching to the smaller chain. I file my rakers down to .035 and that really helps with cutting speed with no change in the quality of the cut. I recently read Will Maloofs book and saw that he runs square chain with the rakers filed at .045 on an 090. I don't know if my saw would handle that, but it would speed things up for you.

The other thing that can really slow cutting speed is a dirty air filter.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I would think that square ground would dull pretty fast. IIRC, most "store bought" ripping chains are semi-chisel. Does it start out fairly quick and then slow down in short order?

Ian

 

[madrone]

I would think that square ground would dull pretty fast. IIRC, most "store bought" ripping chains are semi-chisel. Does it start out fairly quick and then slow down in short order?

Ian

Can't say it ever cut 'fairly quick' but compared to a snail it might be so. Really though, it didn't change all that much, the wood was very clean except for some moss.
I just looked at the other ripping chains that came with the saw/mill package. The one I used is full comp square ground which i'm still wondering bout the filing. There is also a square ground with 2 scoring then 2 clearing, and a round with the same 2/2 config. Next time i'll have to try another option.

 

[oldsaw]

That's a lot of fuel for a log that size. My 066 would make at least two full cuts on a much smaller tank, and probably make it half way through again. With maple, it shouldn't take a lot of effort, it's not that hard of a wood. But, the guys are right, even "fast" on a CSM is "slow" to the rest of the world.

Order a Bailey's rip chain and try that as a "control" chain to see where you are at. You could bring your rakers down some more, but don't do it too much. It's one of the things you play with. Most of my chains are at about 7-10 degrees, which seems to work fairly well.

Mark

 

[IndyIan]

I've never timed it but I think cutting at an angle is faster. Like the saw bar 45* to the log or more if it will fit as you have lots of bar length to spare. You'll pull longer chips out instead of dust. I find when ripping firewood chunks that having the bar parallel to the log cuts the fastest and the closer you get to perpendicular the slower it gets. Something to try anyways.
Ian

 

[MJR]

My knees hurt looking at those pictures. A quick search here you will find some creative ways of getting that log off the ground. Good luck.

 

[BobL]

I've never timed it but I think cutting at an angle is faster. Like the saw bar 45* to the log or more if it will fit as you have lots of bar length to spare. You'll pull longer chips out instead of dust. I find when ripping firewood chunks that having the bar parallel to the log cuts the fastest and the closer you get to perpendicular the slower it gets. Something to try anyways.
Ian

I've timed a few angled cuts in Aussie hardwoods and found it is not that different overall. When the blade is first angled it does cut faster for about a ft or so because there is less wood and therefore less load in contact with the chain, but once a full angle is established across the log I found it cuts slightly slower. I think the benefits of parallel to the grain ripping are counteracted by the extra load on the powerhead. this might be different for softer woods where the load on the powerhead is much less.

I do use a form of angled cuts on very hard logs when nearing the end of a widish, very (Aussie) hardwood slab and the chain is getting blunt (see pic below). What I do is rotate the mill, angling first one way and then the other and then back to straight ahead. ie (A) and then the other angle (B) and then (C). which places a lesser load on the saw.

 

[Backwoods]

I am new to using the CSM myself. I cut a Doug fir beam and it was very slow going. I sharpen the chain after each tank of fuel. Then the other day I was milling a 42’ wide walnut crotch and the 288 husky just barely crawled thru the first cut. I was using semi skip 404 chain. I went and bought a new box of files and then sharpened the chain. What a difference that made. I went from cutting dust to pulling long strings out, which were plugging up the saw. I did not touch the rakers either. I was making two cuts between fueling and sharpenings. I took off six 2 ½” slabs from each side then split the center along a deep crack and put the rest on the band mill and finished making 2 ½ slabs. All together, I had three hours setting up and milling that one log, including fueling and sharpening time. The bandmill was by far faster, easier, and left a cleaner cut then the chainsaw mill. However, the chainsaw mill made a much wider cut and that is what was wanted out of that part of the tree. I had milled up the rest of the old dead walnut the day before and had close to 1,000 bft in 4 hours. Both mills have there place.

 

[the westspartan]

Can't say it ever cut 'fairly quick' but compared to a snail it might be so. Really though, it didn't change all that much, the wood was very clean except for some moss.
I just looked at the other ripping chains that came with the saw/mill package. The one I used is full comp square ground which i'm still wondering bout the filing. There is also a square ground with 2 scoring then 2 clearing, and a round with the same 2/2 config. Next time i'll have to try another option.

Even though the wood is fairly clean. There is more dirt and debris in bark than it seems. When you are milling, you are constantly cutting through bark (unless you strip the bark first). A few months ago, I was having a really hard time getting through a cottonwood log that had been on the ground for a while, but had never rolled. It turned out my chain would be dull after about a foot or two. The bark was a little rotty, so I stripped it all off, and the cuts went at least twice as fast.

Nice maple slabs

 

[madrone]

Even though my arms felt like they'd fall off this morn I had only a half day of work so I broke out the 090 again. This time on a narrower big leaf maple 12-16" 11' log. Still using the 36" bar because I haven't fit the 660 to the mill yet (but plan to soon).
This time I tried both of the other chains that came with the rig which I mentioned in a post before, first an Oregon 3/16 semi-chisel, 2 scorers, then 2 clearing. I sharpened the scorers to 20º cutter and 10º upwards, then the clearing ones straight at 0º.
Each cut took half the time as yesterdays cuts, granted the log is half the size. The cut was much easier, but not as clean. Cutting went well till the bar pinched itself as the lengths of the cutters on one side must be longer, cutting crooked. I need to bring it to someone with a good grinder to even everything up.
So to finish up the last 2 cuts I broke out the square ground Stihl chain with the same 2/2 config. and Man Oh Man did that chain cut. I never even sharpened it as it was getting late (good thing, i probably would have messed it up). That chain cut the length of the log in maybe 2 min. Not super smooth but I have nothing but respect for whoever sharpened that chain. I love it and plan to use it alot. That maple cut like butter.
Thought I'd let ya'al know that this story has a happy ending for the moment and that if I can figure out how to sharpen my chains by hand anywhere near what that Stihl chain is like I'm gonna be milling up ALOT of wood soon. (neighbor has a big, big oak that fell last month with about 10 ft of straight trunk.)
Thanks for all the input and good advice. I'll post pics of the oak next week.
-Mark