For y'alls viewing displeasure. A Black Birch

[FLHX Storm]

Hell with critic of the video. Storm I give you a lot of credit for just posting it with all the know it all jackwagons here!

Well, though I probably shouldn't have posted the video especially with some of the responses, I said I would and I try to keep my word.

 

[blacklocst]

Since the chain was new, that would mean the wood was pretty hard or at least the heart wood was. The face cut was "open faced" with a total opening of 90 degrees. (I did 70 on top due to the flare at the butt, 20 for the bottom cut) I was lead to believe that was the minimum opening for precision felling.

I don't mind constructive criticism. As a matter of fact I appreciate it because it forces me to look at my technique a lot closer.

Exactly,I knew you weren't thin skinned and hopefully wouldn't mind the criticism. I could have given you a rep and pat on the back but it would have felt phony. I know if I were doing something and someone could offer help I think my first reaction would be to take a defensive stance and then I would look beyond it and then see if I can learn anything from it.

 

[FLHX Storm]

Pretty solid execution of GOL short bar falling. This technique is better suited to forward leaning trees. Boring out the heartwood first puts all the back pressure on the back strap and side wedges, which aren't optimally positioned to propel the back of the tree up. If the wedges aren't really pounded in the sides you'll pinch the bar or lose the tree cutting the strap. With this tree I would have put in a face, started a back cut with decent hinge wood (as you left, good job), and gotten a wedge or two into the back cut as soon as I had room. Keep them nicely snugged in as you advance the back cut, and watch the top for forward movement. Just make sure to not cut through the hinge. If you don't own a 12" wedge, they are useful for lifting larger trees.

Actually, I had thought the tree was hollow, and with this having been two trees growing together, I was afraid two things would happen. One that it would barber-chair and two, that the trees would separate while I was making the back cut. That was also the reason for the chain at one level and the tow strap further up with it's placement put around both trunks shortly after they grew apart. If you noticed, when I pulled the trigger (released the back strap) the tree did move in the right direction because I had two ropes cinched tight on a single come-along attached to the base of another tree in the target area. The actual target was about 10 feet to the right. I could have pulled it tighter, but, I was still thinking the tree was hollow and I needed as much of a controlled fell as possible and didn't want it to break off. The back cut did open a bit due to this, so it was evident there was little to no pressure on the trigger.

Those two wedges were to hold the back cut open in case it closed once I pulled the trigger. Once pulled, I tapped the wedges in further to maintain the opening, but not really to drop the tree. I kept hearing small cracks which was the reason for some of the pauses and if you saw at the end, I heard the crack I was waiting for which was not audible at least to the camera and then went to a safe spot about 10 feet from the tree.

Having a couple of much larger wedges would have been ideal, but when I looked locally at the TSC and the bog box stores none were available and would have to be shipped in. So I made use of what I had on hand. If the tree hadn't fallen after using those small wedges, I had figured I could just use part of the wood from the face cut and went from there, or I could have walked around and went to the come-along and winched it over. That was a big risk but if I had to, I would have went ahead with it.

At the base it measured out to 35 inches across though where I made my cuts it was about 26 inches across. The height of the tree ended up being 72 feet, give or take a foot measured from the stump to the crown while it was on the ground.

When I started bucking up the trunk, not more than a foot above where I made the felling cuts, the trees separated.

Anyway, that's why I did what I did! I'm sure most of the guys here could have easily done a much better and faster job, but I'm not going to speed through it taking a chance of possibly making a fatal mistake.

 

[FLHX Storm]

Yes. That's where some genuine production fallers hang out. You might not hear much until the weekend cuz they are working. You got it to go where you wanted it.

I'm not a faller--but, here's what I noticed. GOL does not emphasize looking up very much. You will hear advice to look up when falling. If the camera was on your head, I didn't notice that...or did it not show it? I am not comfy running a saw sideways so can't look up enough so I try to really scope out the tree beforehand. You'll hear about that from the production guys. Now, I am comfy bucking up stuff so can take my eyes off to watch a rootwad or wandering cow. I think that's just it, lots of time getting used to the saw going a different way.

Thumb. You were OK when you switched to the left hand, but at the start, your thumb was not wrapped around the bar very well. I feel funny saying this stuff cuz I am not a faller, but thumbs are important to keep the saw away from one's body.

Everything went as planned. That's always a good thing. :msp_thumbsup:

By the way, RandyMac already put this on the F&L forum, but I think it is buried in the BS oops thread of too much information.

Well, I looked at the thread and found the original post by RandyMac. "A lady needs help" (#10969) and the comments that followed. I'm sorry that the video was "15 minutes of pain" according to one post (#10983) but what's life without a bit of pain every now and again. With that being the case, I'm really not sure my going over there would be beneficial to anyone, least of all me.

I do understand the need to look up more to watch for any movement of the crown and of course for falling dead branches. But, in this case it could have been a lie. Any movement of the crown would have been opposite of what was actually happening. And, the tree was clear of any lose dead branches. I had been eying these trees for months planning how I was going to fell them and in which direction I was going to have them go paying particular attention to their lean and anything that might cause the feel to fail, like branches that might hold the tree or even slingshot it in another direction all together. One thing I do quite well is listen, not just to the drone of the chainsaw, but to every little creak and crack so while I didn't look up, I was still very aware of what was going on with the tree itself.

One thing to keep in mind is I have little to no feeling in my legs and feet (from a broken back caused my a motorcycle accident) which was also why I was holding onto the tree to maintain my balance as I moved around the tree. Had I looked up being, on a slope, I would have lost my balance and fell. So which is worse, not looking up or falling with a running chainsaw in your hands with your finger on the trigger? Okay, so I shouldn't be felling trees with my legs the way they are, but then I also have been diagnosed with two torn rotater cuffs and a torn tendon in my left forearm and shouldn't even be lifting a chainsaw.

Thanks for the tip on my not having my hand properly wrapped around the bar, in particular my thumb. I have plenty of room for improvement and if it makes me less likely to have an accident, I'm open.

 

[Locust Cutter]

Actually, I had thought the tree was hollow, and with this having been two trees growing together, I was afraid two things would happen. One that it would barber-chair and two, that the trees would separate while I was making the back cut. That was also the reason for the chain at one level and the tow strap further up with it's placement put around both trunks shortly after they grew apart. If you noticed, when I pulled the trigger (released the back strap) the tree did move in the right direction because I had two ropes cinched tight on a single come-along attached to the base of another tree in the target area. The actual target was about 10 feet to the right. I could have pulled it tighter, but, I was still thinking the tree was hollow and I needed as much of a controlled fell as possible and didn't want it to break off. The back cut did open a bit due to this, so it was evident there was little to no pressure on the trigger.

Those two wedges were to hold the back cut open in case it closed once I pulled the trigger. Once pulled, I tapped the wedges in further to maintain the opening, but not really to drop the tree. I kept hearing small cracks which was the reason for some of the pauses and if you saw at the end, I heard the crack I was waiting for which was not audible at least to the camera and then went to a safe spot about 10 feet from the tree.

Having a couple of much larger wedges would have been ideal, but when I looked locally at the TSC and the bog box stores none were available and would have to be shipped in. So I made use of what I had on hand. If the tree hadn't fallen after using those small wedges, I had figured I could just use part of the wood from the face cut and went from there, or I could have walked around and went to the come-along and winched it over. That was a big risk but if I had to, I would have went ahead with it.

At the base it measured out to 35 inches across though where I made my cuts it was about 26 inches across. The height of the tree ended up being 72 feet, give or take a foot measured from the stump to the crown while it was on the ground.

When I started bucking up the trunk, not more than a foot above where I made the felling cuts, the trees separated.

Anyway, that's why I did what I did! I'm sure most of the guys here could have easily done a much better and faster job, but I'm not going to speed through it taking a chance of possibly making a fatal mistake.

Unless you a F&L or on a tree crew, speed is over-rated. Especially when it may be at the expense of safety. Time be damned, I would rather measure 20 times (if necessary) and cut once to ensure that I survive. Speed is worthless if it causes errors that put you in a casket. Your video looked good. You were very aware of the tree's unique geometry and had very good situational-awareness and judgement. I think the only critique that I had or have was the angle of the back cut, but then again it was a bit hard to really appreciate the incline of the ground... The drop that you did was still much more than many people are capable of or should even by rights attempt. You have nothing to be ashamed of or bashful about. Fantastic Job!

 

[HuskStihl]

Actually, I had thought the tree was hollow, and with this having been two trees growing together, I was afraid two things would happen. One that it would barber-chair and two, that the trees would separate while I was making the back cut. That was also the reason for the chain at one level and the tow strap further up with it's placement put around both trunks shortly after they grew apart. If you noticed, when I pulled the trigger (released the back strap) the tree did move in the right direction because I had two ropes cinched tight on a single come-along attached to the base of another tree in the target area. The actual target was about 10 feet to the right. I could have pulled it tighter, but, I was still thinking the tree was hollow and I needed as much of a controlled fell as possible and didn't want it to break off. The back cut did open a bit due to this, so it was evident there was little to no pressure on the trigger.

Those two wedges were to hold the back cut open in case it closed once I pulled the trigger. Once pulled, I tapped the wedges in further to maintain the opening, but not really to drop the tree. I kept hearing small cracks which was the reason for some of the pauses and if you saw at the end, I heard the crack I was waiting for which was not audible at least to the camera and then went to a safe spot about 10 feet from the tree.

Having a couple of much larger wedges would have been ideal, but when I looked locally at the TSC and the bog box stores none were available and would have to be shipped in. So I made use of what I had on hand. If the tree hadn't fallen after using those small wedges, I had figured I could just use part of the wood from the face cut and went from there, or I could have walked around and went to the come-along and winched it over. That was a big risk but if I had to, I would have went ahead with it.

At the base it measured out to 35 inches across though where I made my cuts it was about 26 inches across. The height of the tree ended up being 72 feet, give or take a foot measured from the stump to the crown while it was on the ground.

When I started bucking up the trunk, not more than a foot above where I made the felling cuts, the trees separated.

Anyway, that's why I did what I did! I'm sure most of the guys here could have easily done a much better and faster job, but I'm not going to speed through it taking a chance of possibly making a fatal mistake.

It seems as though you had everything well planned out. I didn't read (never my strong suit) your post carefully, only watched the video, so I didn't realize you were pulling it over. Two things, that much face is not necessary. Not harmful, but not gonna help you much either. Only time you really want a super open face would when you had a leaner you were concerned about chairing (mild back leaners rarely do). Two, don't worry about the F&L boys (and Slowp), they are equal opportunity falling critics. It was they who turned my inner child sour

 

[knothole]

I think you did a smashing job Storm and I enjoyed the vid. Hope you post more! I kinda like your saw too.

 

[stihly dan]

That took balls to post that video, bigger than mine. Not all of us are pro's, including me. It was a good fell. Shame on anyone to post that as a laughing point! Just cause we don't do it for a living, doesn't mean that it was done wrong, when it went right. Only an A hole would poke fun. There is more to life than felling tree's.

 

[HuskStihl]

That took balls to post that video, bigger than mine. Not all of us are pro's, including me. It was a good fell. Shame on anyone to post that as a laughing point! Just cause we don't do it for a living, doesn't mean that it was done wrong, when it went right. Only an A hole would poke fun. There is more to life than felling tree's.

It doesn't take big balls to post a video. I have small, shriveled balls, and post videos all the time. I post them to get better. The real fallers are harsh, not politically correct, and scary good at what they do. Listening to them will make you better, but it won't be all princess ponies and rainbows (both of which I love, BTW!). Our young lady friend posted a video, got constructive responses, had thoughtful responses to criticism. Kinda the way it should be. If the pros want to make fun of a 15 minute fall with protractors, T-squares, compasses, chains, straps and ropes on their own forum, they have the right to do that as well.

 

[stihly dan]

It doesn't take big balls to post a video. I have small, shriveled balls, and post videos all the time. I post them to get better. The real fallers are harsh, not politically correct, and scary good at what they do. Listening to them will make you better, but it won't be all princess ponies and rainbows (both of which I love, BTW!). Our young lady friend posted a video, got constructive responses, had thoughtful responses to criticism. Kinda the way it should be. If the pros want to make fun of a 15 minute fall with protractors, T-squares, compasses, chains, straps and ropes on their own forum, they have the right to do that as well.

Yes they do have the right. Still makes them A holes.

 

[slowp]

A-holes or no, it has been my experience out in the woods with various loggers and fallers that they'll laugh, or sometimes just about blow up from trying hard not to laugh, then they'll tell you how to do things a safer. better way. They tend to be blunt. Let me see, I showed up and complained about not being able to file a chain sharp for some reason, and it was pointed out that I had a square file chain on the saw and a round file to file it with, I complained about popping alders when I cut them, I got a lecture on barber chairing and a safer way to cut them, one local faller that I've worked with almost blew up from not trying not to laugh when I hopped from a log to another log, lost my balance, and went over backwards after he saw I was OK. There's a lot of kidding and humor out there, and a lot of watching out for each other.

It's a different world and one I felt lucky to have worked in. Just never allow one of them to use his epi pen on you because it expires the next day and he doesn't want to waste it...nope, I had to turn him down over and over and over one morning while looking at stuff on his sale.

 

[Gologit]

Yes they do have the right. Still makes them A holes.

I didn't reply to her thread yet, even though she specifically asked me for comments. If I'm critical of her technique or if I find ways she can do things more efficiently and I tell her, as she asked me to do, does that by your definition make me an A hole?

Not that your opinion of me is of any importance, I'm just trying to understand your resentment of professionals.

Hey, you're a professional HVAC man...I wouldn't resent you telling some newbie that his sheet metal skills were lacking. But maybe you'd be taken an A hole for so doing. And maybe you are.


I'll probably give her my response tomorrow morning. I've been in the woods most of the day...logging.

 

[slowp]

The Pros sometimes have to use a few wedges....

I met Cody at the Montanny GTG. He's a nice guy with a nice family and knows his stuff.

Falling backleaners.

[video=youtube_share;G5qmAD4c49E]http://youtu.be/G5qmAD4c49E[/video]

 

[lfnh]

Yes they do have the right. Still makes them A holes.

Not for nothing, but some times even A holes don't wanna see some hurt.

To the OP:

wrap them thumbs round that bar before htey get busted.

didn't see much looking up. stuff breaks, drops, wind moves stuff. Look up.

not sayin this too be mean either.

 

[FLHX Storm]

Have ya been riding a bunch this year? Have a good one and stay safe out there! :msp_thumbup:

I've evidently been slacking since I only managed 18k this year. It's either that or maybe I'm just getting old! :msp_scared: I still have a couple of months of riding yet this year so maybe I'll still make my average of 27k.

 

[FLHX Storm]

If the pros want to make fun of a 15 minute fall with protractors, T-squares, compasses, chains, straps and ropes on their own forum, they have the right to do that as well.

Hey now, I didn't use a protractor or a compass! :msp_smile:

 

[RandyMac]

I heard there was a puppy over here, chewing on boot laces.

 

[Red Amor]

Yeah, good job. If I can go a little off topic, you might get a little laugh out of it. The camera angle when you were driving the wedges brought back the picture, in my mind, of my daughter, when she was about 5 or 6 years old. I was building a shed and she wanted to help nail the plywood to the floor. She grabbed the biggest hammer she could find and got down on her knees and started driving a nail. She never missed a swing, but the claw was coming mighty close to her forehead. Just as I was about to say "Watch Out", she hit herself. As any parent knows, when a kid sucks in that giant breath, and then holds it for what seems like an hour, there is a giant scream coming. I jumped up and asked if she was "All Right?" Instead of screaming, although the tears were running down her face, she stood up and yelled, "I Just Hit Myself In The Head With A Hammer!! Do YOU THINK I'm All right?" then she grabbed a smaller hammer and went back to work. She just graduated with a MS in Occupational therapy, and a BS in health biology, and her first job is making more money than I do. Yeah, Chicks Rule!! Joe.

Nice yarn Joe
aslo you must be very proud of your baby girl
I know I am of mine

 

[FLHX Storm]

I heard there was a puppy over here, chewing on boot laces.

Actually, it was a logger chewing on a puppy!

 

[flashhole]

Nice job Storm. Now buck it split it and stack it.