Forest History

[slowp]

Bet you didn't know this. From a Wenatchee Okanogan National Forest Facebook post:
The Triple Nickles never doubted themselves.
These dapper-looking men were a mix of former university students, top-notch professional athletes and veteran non-commissioned officers. Although ready, they were not deployed overseas during World War II. Instead, the military secretly airlifted the men to a series of firefighting missions in the Pacific Northwest Region called Operation Firefly. They trained with Forest Service professionals and quickly displayed their aptitude and courage as the first military – and Black – smokejumpers.
Photo: Enrollees of Civilian Conservation Corps Camp Shavers Fork on the Monongahela National Forest in West Virginia assemble outside their tents awaiting morning work detail orders in 1933. The integrated company had 189 white and 14 black enrollees until a later decision was made to segregate whites from Blacks. (USDA Forest Service photo)

 

[2dogs]

Interesting bit of history that I had never heard of.

 

[ericm979]

In WWII the Japanese tried to set fire to the western part of the US by launching incendiary balloons that were intended to drift over to the US, land and set fires.

https://www.history.com/news/attack-of-japans-killer-wwii-balloons-70-years-agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb
It didn't work very well but it had the government freaking out. Operation firefly using the triple nickles smoke jumpers were a response unit:

https://unwritten-record.blogs.archives.gov/2020/02/05/the-triple-nickles-and-operation-firefly/

 

[slowp]

Interesting bit of history that I had never heard of.

I had forgotten about it. At the same time, the Mennonites who were conscious objectors volunteered to be smoke jumpers.

http://www.siskiyousmokejumpermuseum.org/article/smokejumpers-cj-1943-1945

 

[Marine5068]

I wonder what the virgin old growth forests were like before Europeans arrived in the US?
I know that by 1920 almost all of the forests are gone and have never returned since.

 

[northmanlogging]

I wonder what the virgin old growth forests were like before Europeans arrived in the US?
I know that by 1920 almost all of the forests are gone and have never returned since.
View attachment 965524

I don't think them maps are even remotely accurate, at least not for WA state, there is a huge swathe right down the middle that is inaccessible, and another on the Oly peninsula, realistically closer to what they depict in the 1920 "map"

 

[northmanlogging]

Also I might add, that there is more forest land now, then there was when the pilgrims landed, something to the order of 300% more, not "virgin" old growth but it is forest and it does return.

 

[northmanlogging]

furthermore, you can get in your car and drive right through much of it, not even all that difficult to find, some of its even in parks.

So if you really want to see what it was like when round eyes got here its not that hard to do, but I'll tell you its cold, damp, dark most everything is in a state of decay, you won't see much fauna if any, you won't hear much, like snow it dampens all sound, the moss at your feet is ankle to knee deep, the ferns sometimes tower over your head, getting lost is far easier then you think, cause you can't see the sun even on a nice day, there is no wind. Truth be told it can be really really intimidating, especially when faced with the prospect of eking out an existence in it.

 

[calamari]

In WWII the Japanese tried to set fire to the western part of the US by launching incendiary balloons that were intended to drift over to the US, land and set fires.

https://www.history.com/news/attack-of-japans-killer-wwii-balloons-70-years-agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb
It didn't work very well but it had the government freaking out. Operation firefly using the triple nickles smoke jumpers were a response unit:

https://unwritten-record.blogs.archives.gov/2020/02/05/the-triple-nickles-and-operation-firefly/

Ponderosa Way would have helped if a fire got going from the balloons but it's not consistently maintained anymore. It's an interesting artifact from a different time.
I remember older guys talking about if there was a big fire in the area and they needed men. they'd come into the towns and just press able bodied guys into service to fight it. Then guys knew what hard works was and could see the need that they could help with. Now any guy on the street would think a McCleod was something you buy at McDonalds and would want to know who was going to launder their clothes if they got dirty.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/califor...00-mile-firebreak-once-protected-15713546.php

 

[Del_]

 

[CDElliott]

In WWII the Japanese tried to set fire to the western part of the US by launching incendiary balloons that were intended to drift over to the US, land and set fires.

https://www.history.com/news/attack-of-japans-killer-wwii-balloons-70-years-agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb
It didn't work very well but it had the government freaking out. Operation firefly using the triple nickles smoke jumpers were a response unit:

https://unwritten-record.blogs.archives.gov/2020/02/05/the-triple-nickles-and-operation-firefly/

I remember reading an article on how the geologists tracked down the location of the launch sites down by examining the sand that was used as ballast. Pretty good detective work.

 

[slowp]

The various tribes practiced "forest management" before any Europeans got here. They used fire to make openings so brush would grow that deer like to eat, the PNW tribes burned to keep huckleberries and other food crops growing, various species of shrubs for basket weaving and medicinal uses, and there is one instance of fire being used in tribal warfare that is documented. I guess it got out of control and burned quite a bit of ground in Western Warshington.

I was told that one hilltop that is almost on the Cascade crest, still had soil problems because it had been burned often and at high temperatures before Europeans were in the area. It was in prime huckleberry country. It is no more because clearcutting was stopped along with broadcast burns. Burns are still attempted in that area, but only in very small patches so huckleberry habitat is shrinking as the trees grow and take over--blocking the sunlight. I used to hope a good lightning storm would hover over that area and open up more huckleberry ground, or that the Yakama Tribe would sell fireworks up there. Their reservation borders the National Forest.

Tribes elsewhere practiced deforestation for farming. North and South America were not uninhabited before Columbus and friends "discovered" it.

 

[dogone]

Two or three people were killed because of the ballon’s. They found one and while examining it the explosives detonated. The only direct ww2 casualties.

 

[ericm979]

The various tribes practiced "forest management" before any Europeans got here. They used fire to make openings so brush would grow that deer like to eat, the PNW tribes burned to keep huckleberries and other food crops growing, various species of shrubs for basket weaving and medicinal uses, and there is one instance of fire being used in tribal warfare that is documented. I guess it got out of control and burned quite a bit of ground in Western Warshington.

Here in California the tribes did a lot of burning for management. The old growth stands we have now after 120 years of fire supression are probably a lot different from the pre-Columbian forest.

 

[slowp]

furthermore, you can get in your car and drive right through much of it, not even all that difficult to find, some of its even in parks.

So if you really want to see what it was like when round eyes got here its not that hard to do, but I'll tell you its cold, damp, dark most everything is in a state of decay, you won't see much fauna if any, you won't hear much, like snow it dampens all sound, the moss at your feet is ankle to knee deep, the ferns sometimes tower over your head, getting lost is far easier then you think, cause you can't see the sun even on a nice day, there is no wind. Truth be told it can be really really intimidating, especially when faced with the prospect of eking out an existence in it.

However, you need to add fire to this. Our Doug-firs need disturbance to get going so there were fires, human and nature caused, root rot and wind storms, etc. It wouldn't and wasn't all pristine ancient foresty stuff. Plus, on the east coast, the tribal folks were farming. Farming is deforestation! I'm thinking slash, burn, plant crops, repeat.

 

[2dogs]

Patty this probably a stupid question for me to ask but how come you never looked into a career as a professor in your field. (Yes of course I know you loved being in the woods.) Or maybe "Patty's Huckleberry Cookies" on Etsy?

 

[slowp]

Patty this probably a stupid question for me to ask but how come you never looked into a career as a professor in your field. (Yes of course I know you loved being in the woods.) Or maybe "Patty's Huckleberry Cookies" on Etsy?

I stayed away from STEM classes as much as I could in high school but had to take one in cheap college. I chose botany, liked it, and it was geared towards forestry, so I switched. Then I had to study! No more music or basketball. Also, I could work in the woods and eat as many cookies as I wanted to and not put on pounds. That isn't so anymore, sigh.

I do love me a good history though. History shows us that here in Warshington, and most likely Oregon, stand replacement fires (big 'uns) hit the west side of the Cascades about every 200 or 300 years, about the same frequency as The Big One (earthquake). The Olympic peninsula was a different system--much wetter so not included in that fire ecosystem.

 

[Cricket]

Ponderosa Way would have helped if a fire got going from the balloons but it's not consistently maintained anymore. It's an interesting artifact from a different time.
I remember older guys talking about if there was a big fire in the area and they needed men. they'd come into the towns and just press able bodied guys into service to fight it. Then guys knew what hard works was and could see the need that they could help with. Now any guy on the street would think a McCleod was something you buy at McDonalds and would want to know who was going to launder their clothes if they got dirty.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/califor...00-mile-firebreak-once-protected-15713546.php

I've got a tool that looks kind of like that, but has more of a broad short mattock head opposite the tines... does that still count as a McCleod?

It does work well for keeping burning brush piles civilized.

 

[Gologit]

Patty this probably a stupid question for me to ask but how come you never looked into a career as a professor in your field. (Yes of course I know you loved being in the woods.) Or maybe "Patty's Huckleberry Cookies" on Etsy?

I always thought it would be fun to move up there for awhile and log a sale where she was the SA. She would have had to lower herself to working with a Cat logger though and the loss of status from running yarder shows might have made her grumpy.
If she'd been a professor most of us wouldn't have known her and that would have been our loss. She makes great cookies and kicks the work around pretty good too.
I miss Benny.

 

[slowp]

I miss the big dock stumbler also. He always got the tennis ball.