Four stroke chainsaw at Lowes

[FredricRice]

That’s a ridiculous thing to say. Apart from all the debunked nonsense of controlled burning and stripping out the forest really making all that much difference (and I’m an fire fighter in Australia where we have real fires!), when did “caring about having clean air to breathe” become political anyway. It was a so called right wing president that created the EPA for gods sake.

Please engage your brain before spouting trump rally nonsense…

It's not our forests in California that are the wildfire problem, it's our desert chaparral that burns and sweeps in to forested areas, most of the time, adversely impacted by the warming climate and the desiccation of our soils, something we're seeing across the entire American Southwest -- even "Red States" -- as water sources dry up and disappear and rainfall increases across shorter periods of time.

Those old-timers like me remember a time when our nation's air quality was so bad that we had "smog days" in various places across the country, days when schools had to close and it was recommended that children and old timers stay indoors and not exercise much. Playing outside was like smoking a pack of tobacco products, and old timers like me remember.

California State's medical bills for citizens hospitalized or otherwise treated for smog inhalation used to be around the top in any State, other than parts of Texas and a few places on the East Coast where topology did not clear the air or sweep the smog Westward or out to sea. Since we instigated serious progressive air quality rules, we have cleaned up our air and aggregate pollutant medical bills declined in a plot that one could match against the quality of our air.

 

[haakon]

Cheers - so you debunked it?

Yep A good example is that community in Nth NSW that Barnaby had a go at for being hippies in the bush and it was their fault they were burnt out. Turned out of course that community was not only heavily involved in RFS, but had been going nuts on all the things you're supposed to do. Didn't help on the day when cars were exploding from radiant heat before they even got fire near them and the tornado of flames were roaring across the tree tops...

 

[FredricRice]

If its like the one I got here at Aldi in Australia, you'll need those special "tamperproof" screwdrivers for the high and low mixtures at least - normal flathead wont work.

Ha, yes! Circular with a divot off centered along the rim? My son has that tool, he has two of every tool ever created by humans since they started banging rocks together to make fires.

 

[haakon]

Ha, yes! Circular with a divot off centered along the rim? My son has that tool, he has two of every tool ever created by humans since they started banging rocks together to make fires.

I love excuses to buy toys i mean tools

 

[FredricRice]

Cheers - so you debunked it?

Fuel reduction does reduce the severity of burns, as does removal of ladder fuels up in to the canopy. That is not, er, um, well debunked. Fire science involves allowing things to burn up to a point, yet fuel reduction so that pines and oaks are not burned so badly that the bark is penetrated across the entire circumference of the tree is a proven technology, though physics may run upside down in Australia!

Also 'dozer cutting fire breaks is how things are done when there is time and the topology permits, dropping FosChek for fast, temporary reduction of ground fuel ignition temperatures is also good, yet when we need to get a firebreak done quickly, right now, we have no other choice, we use on rare occasion Tovex Firebreak II which can be shown in this series of photos:

http://www.crystallake.name/twork/31jan09/31jan09.php

 

[FredricRice]

I love excuses to buy toys i mean tools

My son says I should slap him when he starts talking about purchasing another saw.

 

[haakon]

Fuel reduction does reduce the severity of burns, as does removal of ladder fuels up in to the canopy. That is not, er, um, well debunked. Fire science involves allowing things to burn up to a point, yet fuel reduction so that pines and oaks are not burned so badly that the bark is penetrated across the entire circumference of the tree is a proven technology, though physics may run upside down in Australia!

Also 'dozer cutting fire breaks is how things are done when there is time and the topology permits, dropping FosChek for fast, temporary reduction of ground fuel ignition temperatures is also good, yet when we need to get a firebreak done quickly, right now, we have no other choice, we use on rare occasion Tovex Firebreak II which can be shown in this series of photos:

http://www.crystallake.name/twork/31jan09/31jan09.php

Thats why I said if you're lucky it can help in the early stages - but once its up and going with a 100kph wind on a 45 degree day, no amount of prescribed burns earlier in the year will save you.

In California you should be passingly familiar with how well (and how hot) Eucalypts burn - imagine a whole continent of them and you'll understand the best and only real solution to the big fast fires is to run like hell. We had embers falling out the sky 80kms ahead of the fire front in Victoria on Black Saturday....

Yes we use chainsaws for mop up and prep when the fire is calm, and yes I would advocate we keep the 2 strokes here for now for emergency response uses.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

IMHO, 4-strokes have no place in hand held power equipment. Heavy, expensive, maintenance intensive, more labor to repair, failure prone as of late, and larger in size for a given power output. There is not one benefit (for me) in owning one that outweighs all the bad points. If I had my way, I'd have a 2-stroke V8 in my truck!

I frequently get small 4-strokes in here with valve problems, because nobody realizes they need adjustment ... and especially if you never change the oil on ones with a sump!

Pic of the last 4-stroke I worked on in a Troy Bilt blower:

 

[haakon]

IMHO, 4-strokes have no place in hand held power equipment. Heavy, expensive, maintenance intensive, more labor to repair, failure prone as of late, and larger in size for a given power output. There is not one benefit (for me) in owning one that outweighs all the bad points. If I had my way, I'd have a 2-stroke V8 in my truck!

I frequently get small 4-strokes in here with valve problems, because nobody realizes they need adjustment ... and especially if you never change the oil on ones with a sump!

Pic of the last 4-stroke I worked on in a Troy Bilt blower:
View attachment 939058View attachment 939057

Not sure owner neglect and lack of maintenance is a reflection of the technology!
There are obviously a few key benefits of 4 stroke - ease of starting and use, torque, and of course - fuel consumption and emissions. There are a bunch of reasons you cant get a 2 stroke in your "truck"! Same reasons largely why you wont be able to buy a 4 stroke either soon enough

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

A properly tuned 2-stroke will ALWAYS be easier to start than ANY 4-stroke. Just physics.

I've got a '74 Yamaha RD350 2-stroke twin that gets 35 MPG with frequent WOT runs. Can't say that's bad fuel consumption there with my 175 lb. fat belly resting on the tank. I built it and tuned it. Starts 1 kick all season. 3 kicks if it sits 5-7 months. As far as emissions, well, that's of no concern of mine. I've got asthma - if the air was as bad as some chicken littles say it is, then I'd have been dead 30 years now.

 

[haakon]

A properly tuned 2-stroke will ALWAYS be easier to start than ANY 4-stroke. Just physics.

I've got a '74 Yamaha RD350 2-stroke twin that gets 35 MPG with frequent WOT runs. Can't say that's bad fuel consumption there with my 175 lb. fat belly resting on the tank. I built it and tuned it. Starts 1 kick all season. 3 kicks if it sits 5-7 months. As far as emissions, well, that's of no concern of mine. I've got asthma - if the air was as bad as some chicken littles say it is, then I'd have been dead 30 years now.

View attachment 939060

Data is not the plural of anecdote

The air isn't that bad these days - because of emissions laws

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Gotta speak English, man. I'm just a dumb mechanic that drank himself stupid the first 4 decades of life ...

 

[haakon]

Gotta speak English, man. I'm just a dumb mechanic that drank himself stupid the first 4 decades of life ...

That is English

 

[OM617YOTA]

IMHO, 4-strokes have no place in hand held power equipment. Heavy, expensive, maintenance intensive, more labor to repair, failure prone as of late, and larger in size for a given power output. There is not one benefit (for me) in owning one that outweighs all the bad points. If I had my way, I'd have a 2-stroke V8 in my truck!

I frequently get small 4-strokes in here with valve problems, because nobody realizes they need adjustment ... and especially if you never change the oil on ones with a sump!

Pic of the last 4-stroke I worked on in a Troy Bilt blower:
View attachment 939058View attachment 939057

To be fair, the ones that work keep on working, never come to your shop.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

I don't see failures like this in 2-strokes ... and there are probably a hundred 2-strokes to every one 4-stroke out in the general public around here. Not a very good track record ...

 

[haakon]

I don't see failures like this in 2-strokes ... and there are probably a hundred 2-strokes to every one 4-stroke out in the general public around here. Not a very good track record ...

No, its just a reflection of idiots who dont know how to maintain their stuff. Hell, I even had a mower shop try to tell me the Husky 4 strokes were 2 strokes because they use 2 stroke fuel FFS...

 

[haakon]

Wild land firefighting is exempt. Tree service and logging will most likely be exempted due to zero battery saw equivalent to 45cc and larger saws. Marc Berman and others know nothing about what we do for a living. They are clueless about the equipment.

So he says the professional and emergency uses are exempt and you're still unhappy? I don't get it.

 

[TBS]

So he says the professional and emergency uses are exempt and you're still unhappy? I don't get it.

Once the home owner grade stuff goes away the pro stuff on the shelf will be less and have to be ordered. What defines professional?

 

[haakon]

Once the home owner grade stuff goes away the pro stuff on the shelf will be less and have to be ordered. What defines professional?

"exempted due to zero battery saw equivalent to 45cc and larger saws" according to the official quoted earlier.

 

[fields_mj]

That’s a ridiculous thing to say. Apart from all the debunked nonsense of controlled burning and stripping out the forest really making all that much difference (and I’m an fire fighter in Australia where we have real fires!), when did “caring about having clean air to breathe” become political anyway. It was a so called right wing president that created the EPA for gods sake.

Please engage your brain before spouting trump rally nonsense…

And since when did 2 stroke lawn/ag equipment become a significant, or even measurable source of air pollution??? How about we expand that question to ALL of the agriculture equipment in the US? I'm all for taking care of the environment, but I'm smart enough to understand that you will never make progress by focusing on the little 1% stuff. You have to back up and look at the whole picture and then focus on the major contributing factors. 2 stroke engines in the US don't even make the list of small stuff.

My point wasn't about how we should effectively fight forest fires. I will gladly admit that I don't know squat about that subject. My point was simply that those who are fighting the fires should be the ones deciding what the appropriate tools are for the job.

As far as becoming political, any time the government oversteps its bounds by attempting to restrict individual rights, it becomes political. I realize that, in most of the world, people just do what they are told without much thought. That is not how this country was designed to function. This country is designed such that the individual has the highest level of authority. By design, our federal government simply lacks the authority to do all that much because we recognize that government is a horribly inefficient vehicle for change, AND that left to its own devices, government will ALWAYS corrupt.