Friction: False crotch or Climbing hitch

[Nickrosis]

This is a question of pure personal preference until more info on this topic gets delivered.

Would you rather have the friction saver take up some friction so it isn't all on your knot......or......would you rather have a nearly friction-free false crotch with the friction hitch doing all the work?

Nickrosis

 

[rbtree]

A vt works just fine when crotched through a pulley only. But, for ascending, I find it a bit hard on my weak old grip to have to pull 1/2 my weight with no friction to help capture all the progress. So, I usually set my saver thru a pulley and biner

 

[tshanefreeman]

I believe that both techniques have their own applications and thus should be used accordingly.

I personally like a friction free setup. I climb with a split-tail Blakes Hitch, and the less friction in the system the easier the mobility throughout the tree.

However, the time required to setup the perfect false crotch/friction saver system can sometimes be unjustified. On thick-barked trees, such as mature Burr Oaks or Cottonwoods, I will sometimes run the rope through a natural crotch. This enables me to hook in with my lanyard, reposition my climbing line through another crotch and continue working. Yes, it does make for more physical work when ascending off of the ground, but once I'm in the tree, work moves along efficiently. Plus, I never have to worry about getting my friction saver caught in the crotch...............which can be very time consuming. I know that I'm decreasing the life-expectancy of my rope, but the wear offsets the cost. And the bark damage is minimal and therefore doesn't damage the tree.

All this said, I still own two savers and use them, because they DO SERVE A PURPOSE.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Free the Friction! Free the Friction! Free the Friction! It's time to start an arbo revolution. Friction is fighting to be set free and I'm doing everything in my power to let it out.

On Monday I got a package from Hubert Kowalewski. Inside was a Rope Guide. This is the next itteration of friction free false crotches. The climbing rope runs over a single sheave and the Rope Guide can be retrieved by pulling the climbing rope through the ring.

I've asked JPS to copy a picture into this thread. If he can't do that, email me off the forum and I'll send you a link to the pic.

From Sergio's site, http://www.treeclimbing.it

Using a FC takes a little more planning to reduce the chance of snagging. In the years that I've been using a FC I only remember a few times that I snagged. Most of those times its because I didn't plan ahead. The advantages out weigh the possible downsides.

I'll repeat a thought that my friend Dave Spencer came up with a few years ago. "There will come a day that climbers who don't use a false crotch are thought of in the same way as we feel about spike climbers and toppers." That may be a generation or two but its coming. I'll bet dollars to donuts that no more than 5% of the climbers in all of the Chapter Master's Challenges don't use a FC.

Tom

 

[Todd K.]

I agree with Tom No friction works best for me. I am able to move more freely though the tree because there is nothing but the weight of the rope and my hitch holding me back. I'm using a F.C. that I made that runs off a single pulley.I also agree with toms statement about a little more planning. I have not gotten a F.C. stuck in a coulpe of years. Also with climbing off a single pulley puts equal friction on both sides of your rope enabling you to be more consistant with retrievable redirects. Although it does tear up your hitch sooner but I use very inexpensive cord.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It depends on what I am doing in the tree, and where I am crotched.

I mostly ascend DdRT, so friction is not an issue.

Some trees I use the rope mostly for body positioning and am moving the TIP frequently, SO I'll save th MTIP for the last crotch and use it to descend, where most of the tissue damamge will happen.

I'f I'm moving up and down in a canopy I will use the MTIP on every crotch, say a silver maple where you need to descend 10 feet to get a good angle on a cut, climb up, do some work....and do it all over a gain

 

[rahtreelimbs]

At this stage of the game, rating myself at about 5 1/2 to 6 on the tree climbing experience ladder. I find friction to benefit me. I am not experienced enough to deal with the sudden changes that a friction-free set-up offers. I will progross to that point and will take advantage of friction-free set-ups in the future.

 

[treeclimber165]

I had the opportunity to set a MTIP today, using a 2.37" pulley. Without any friction at the tie-in point, body thrusting was virtually impossible. I ended up removing it in order to get in the tree.
I have to imagine ascending with mechanical assistance, the ascenders would tear up your lifeline twice as much with zero friction at the tie-in point. But I have virtually no experience with ascenders (till I tried some today).

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

What hitch wer you useing?

 

[treeclimber165]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
What hitch wer you useing?

4/1 Distal hitch, identical to what is shown on page 18 of the Sherrill catalog.

Once I removed the MTIP and used the natural crotch, I was able to body thrust up almost 60', passing Spencer (using ascenders) about halfway up.

 

[jsirbasku]

retrieval

Tom,

Is that set up retrievable with a throwline, or does all that hardware free fall when retrieved? Iguess I still dont know why a puck is used instead of hitch made out of cord. That set up is almost exactly the same as my home-made system, and the only hardware on it is the pulley sheave w / clevis and the steel ring. The retrieval link is a steel rapide link. using this frictionless system is great, there are of coarse trade offs, but for the most part I like it and have used it everyday since i made it. Someday Ill have to try the lockjack version to see if there is any difference.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I don't know about pulling it out, but how can you put it in with a throw line?

I'd like to know how strong the litle pulley is and also the litle strap that holds the pulley?

jsirbasku, how did you make your pulley?

 

[Nickrosis]

I did climbing training all day today and yesterday, and the students were experimenting with different ascension techniques. One found a pulley to be much better for ascending! He much preferred it to a friction saver.

Unfortunately, we had to call him out of the tree because it began to rain. If we had more time, I would have liked to try body thrusting with a pulley vs. with a friction saver because we had both systems in that white pine.

Nickrosis

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Mike,

The strength is needed in the shackle not the sheave. The sheave is there to give a larger bend ratio and to allow the rope to slide. Also, the strap is labeled at 22 kN.

John,

Your setup is definitly the econo way to go. Very clever! If I'm below my TIP I can slide the RG down the rope to the stopper knot and flip the aluminum ring through the TIP. The ring drops down to me then I set up my climbing line. I can then tug on the stopper knot to slide the RG up, closer to the TIP. The RG slides just like a slack tender below the friction hitch. This has saved me a little climbing when up in the top of the tree and there aren't any branches to step on.

Setting up the Rope Guide from the ground isn't necessary because I SRT to my TIP.

I haven't used a throwline to retrieve mine yet but it should work the same as an AFC or ringed FC. I'll have all of my bootie along at TCI for the Saturday Climber's Picnic.

Tom