Fuel Issues Anyone?

[shadow745]

I know this subject has been addressed MANY times, but I'm wondering if current gasoline quality is that bad. Was at my local Western Auto store earlier, who also happens to be the local Husky dealer/general small engine repair shop for the area. I asked the owner about ethanol issues... he grinned and said a huge part of their service work (large pile of various brands) is ethanol related.

I'm not doubting fuel could be better, but based on what he had to say/what I've seen others do alot of issues are user related. Of course the ethanol isn't making things easier, but it seems as if a few preventive measures is all it takes to minimize/eliminate these problems.

I told the guy I've been using the same fuel like everybody else has for years and I've never had a single issue. He said I was just lucky and it will happen eventually, but I have to disagree. I'm quite involved with Preventive Maintenance and only buy gas in small quantities so it never sits for than 30 days or so. I use STA-BIL in all 4-cycle gas and Opti2 for 2-cycles and ALWAYS give the container a good swirl before filling any tanks.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

Yes it is that bad. The fact you are doing what you are doing, is really all that is required to keep the problems to a minimum but yes, it is that bad.

I don't know where in Central NC you are but I know of two different stations in the Raleigh/Durham area that are selling ethanol free if you are interested.

 

[greg409]

I've done extensive reading regarding ethanol added fuel. (10%)

Alot of it is self-serving B.S. - on both sides of the issue.

There's a few common sense practices to minimize what MAY affect your fuel.

Don't bother "shaking it up" - once the moisture (if any), is seperated, it will NOT re-incorporate into fuel.
(in your vehicle, the gas doesn't sit long enough to "phase seperate")

Buy gas at a high-volume station

High temp fluctuations will accelerate the fouling of fuel (particularly winter fuel sitting thru' summer)

That said, I'm the poster child for all the wrong methods, I've had very few problems - maybe cuz my gas station does such a big volume, I don't know

I do nothing to preserve the stability of my fuel on maybe (20) pieces of equipt 2 or 4 stroke and maybe once or twice had to clean my snowblower carb bowl after sitting all summer in the shed with gas in it. (I don't drain my stuff, often)

those are my honest experiances, other people's may be different.

luck,greg

 

[SilverKing]

If you can afford it,dump a little ethanol gas on a brush pile and light it.Ive actually has to use paper to get the gas to burn.Its actually not alot more flammable than diesel fuel anymore.Ive bought a lot of used saws through the years,most just needed a spark plug,adjust the carb,or at worst,a carb rebuild.Now every used saw I buy needs crank seals, a piston and cylinder,and a whole new carb.Somethin in ethanol that dont get along well with rubber I guess.Just my 2 cents.But the preventive maintenance you do is a good idea no matter what.

 

[Slamm]

Find an airport buy AV 100LL and end any and all fuel related problems.

No need for fuel stabilzer or any other weirdness, just put it in, leave it for months or years and nothing bad will happen.

Sam

 

[Gologit]

I quit using pump gas several years ago and switched to 100LL av-gas. I'm no big expert on gas but I've found it just works better for me.

The main concern I had with pump gas was the inconsistency of it. I'm usually working different places all the time and I used to just grab my gas at whatever station I could find. My saws suffered some for that, I think. I never had any outright failures that I could attribute to the gas but I could sure tell the difference in the performance of the saw. My saws have to run right or I don't make any money.

I work at a lot of different elevations, anywhere from 1000 to 8000 feet above sea level so I'm constantly retuning my carb for peak performance. With the pump gas I'd often have to retune when switching from one jug to another that was bought at a different place. A lot of the gas stations buy their gas from a broker and that means it might come from a different refinery every load. How do you know what you're really getting?

Av-gas is consistent from place to place. It's refined to very strict standards and I've found no difference in how my saw runs no matter where I bought the gas. Av-gas is also very well filtered before delivery. It's also a little more expensive and some places won't sell it to you if you don't have an airplane or if they don't know you. But it is available and it is legal to run.

It also stores well. I leave it in my wife's weed-eater all winter and I've been doing it that way for six years with the same weed-eater. No problems.

I don't think that pump gas is as bad as some people make out. I just don't trust it not to let me down. And how are you going to know if you're getting bad gas? I wanted something that I could use and trust and not worry about and, for me anyway, av-gas is it.

 

[biggus]

All I use is stabil and I've never had a problem. I always double up on the formula so it's good up to two years. I notice Stabil has a dedicated product just for ethanol treatment although I've never seen it in stores. The regular red stabil says:


America's top selling fuel stabilizer keeps fuel fresh for quick, easy starts after storage
Removes water to prevent corrosion and cleans carburetors and fuel injectors
Protects engine from gum, varnish, rust, and corrosion
Prolongs engine life
Eliminates the need to drain fuel before storage
For all 2-cycle and 4-cycle gasoline engines

So I dunno - maybe I'm just 'lucky' - all I ever buy is the stuff my local Fry's market gas station sells. Although now I only use 91 octane whereas before I would buy the cheap stuff.

 

[Slamm]

All I use is stabil and I've never had a problem. I always double up on the formula so it's good up to two years. I notice Stabil has a dedicated product just for ethanol treatment although I've never seen it in stores. The regular red stabil says:


America's top selling fuel stabilizer keeps fuel fresh for quick, easy starts after storage
Removes water to prevent corrosion and cleans carburetors and fuel injectors
Protects engine from gum, varnish, rust, and corrosion
Prolongs engine life
Eliminates the need to drain fuel before storage
For all 2-cycle and 4-cycle gasoline engines

So I dunno - maybe I'm just 'lucky' - all I ever buy is the stuff my local Fry's market gas station sells. Although now I only use 91 octane whereas before I would buy the cheap stuff.

I'm just joking here with the red, but if the gas, water and Stabil is all in a sealed tank .......................... where does it "removes water to" ?????????????? LOL!!!!

Just wondering.

I think it works, but its just a crutch for a problem, I just use AV 100LL and don't ever have the problem to begin with.

Sam

 

[axlr8]

whats the price difference with the Aviation fuel???

 

[fearofpavement]

While I don't use avgas in my saws, I have burned a quarter of a million gallons of it in airplanes and will vouch for the consistency and purity of it. If I were in a situation where I couldn't get ethanol free fuel, I would certainly use it.

 

[fearofpavement]

whats the price difference with the Aviation fuel???

Depends on where you are and how you buy it. Most self serve now is around $6.00 a gallon. This can vary up or down by more than a dollar a gallon depending on the region and airport. Fuel prices are pretty readily available online.

 

[Sprintcar]

100LL Aviation gas is refined to a higher standard. Plan on paying from about $5.75 for a low to about $6.50 for the high. Ask the FBO if it has a 100LL fuel bowser. Sometimes you can get it really cheap.

 

[indiansprings]

Since working in a saw shop the last few weeks, I have seen first hand the damage that the ethanol does, depending on the make of saw and fuel line it makes a difference, cheap box store saws have to have the fuel line replaced on about 70 percent of the saws that come in. Diaphrams wrinkle and are ruined, what you are doing with the stabil and keeping fresh fuel is what is keeping your saws going. You would not believe the fuel we dump out of saws, it is the first thing we do when a saw comes in. I've seen it totally seperated, seen it look like pond scum algae, people leave fuel in for a year and expect their saws to run and then beech we have to a 35.00 carb rebuild. We stress 91 or 93 fuel and Ultra and emptying a saw if it is going to set over a month. We have had customers state they have had success with Stabil products.

 

[biggus]

I'm just joking here with the red, but if the gas, water and Stabil is all in a sealed tank .......................... where does it "removes water to" ?????????????? LOL!!!!

Just wondering.

Yeah really - makes you wonder. I guess we're just supposed to accept whatever people w/ letters after their names tell us.

 

[Slamm]

I just paid $5.45 for it. I usually get it when I'm not inbetween jobs or at the beginning of a logging job, I'll burn up what I have and then use auto gas through the middle and then when I have a few days of work left, I'll start using AV gas again so its in the carbs. In 7-8 years, I have had zero gas issues and I had an 084 that I left it in there and never started it for around 2 years. It started right away 2 years later.

Like stated before, you can tell a difference when you run auto gas, the saws don't run as good or hard, they won't lug as hard, and are more picky about the adjustment screws to get them to idle right from gallon to gallon.

I don't mind saving a few bucks in the middle of a job when I know, I'm going to go through a lot of gallons of gas with multiple cutters running saws, but if there is a chance that we may have to quit for awhile and the saws sit with gas in them, I switch to 100LL, or I pour it out and refill with AV 100LL for the storage. If a saw of mine was to go down for some ignorant fuel related reason, I would be pissed and the "pain-in-the-butt" meter would be running at half mast, I'd just as soon never have moments like that.

I just went to my airport and they have self serve AV 100LL, can't beat that.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

Since working in a saw shop the last few weeks, I have seen first hand the damage that the ethanol does, depending on the make of saw and fuel line it makes a difference, cheap box store saws have to have the fuel line replaced on about 70 percent of the saws that come in. Diaphrams wrinkle and are ruined, what you are doing with the stabil and keeping fresh fuel is what is keeping your saws going. You would not believe the fuel we dump out of saws, it is the first thing we do when a saw comes in. I've seen it totally seperated, seen it look like pond scum algae, people leave fuel in for a year and expect their saws to run and then beech we have to a 35.00 carb rebuild. We stress 91 or 93 fuel and Ultra and emptying a saw if it is going to set over a month. We have had customers state they have had success with Stabil products.

Agreed, I know of a local Husky dealer who's owner stated they performed over 300 fuel related repairs in one year, and he attributed it to ethanol or poor gas or combo.

I don't want to be a statistic, LOL.

Sam

 

[s219]

I'm quite involved with Preventive Maintenance and only buy gas in small quantities so it never sits for than 30 days or so. I use STA-BIL in all 4-cycle gas and Opti2 for 2-cycles and ALWAYS give the container a good swirl before filling any tanks.

The fact that you're not keeping ethanol gas around for more than 30 days is what is saving your butt. Keep doing that if you can.

Me, I buy a large quantity of ethanol-free gas once a year and put stabil in it. Then I meter that out into 1-gal jugs for my saws as needed, and add oil-mix.

 

[s219]

All I use is stabil and I've never had a problem. I always double up on the formula so it's good up to two years.

From the Stabil website:

Depending on the quality, type and source of the gasoline, as well as storage conditions, doubling the dosage rate of STA-BIL® brand could prolong this storage time to up to 2 years. However, any gasoline stored for more than 12 months will tend to lose volatility (ignitability), which could lead to hard starting or no start conditions after this long storage period. NO additive, STA-BIL® brand included, will prevent volatility loss in fuel. To reduce fuel volatility loss during storage, we recommend filling your tank at least 95% fulll with fresh fuel and STA-BIL® brand, and store in cool conditions away from direct sunlight if possible.

 

[sunfish]

Besides having to replace a couple fuel lines, I've had no problems...

 

[indiansprings]

In three weeks time I bet we have done at least 40 saws with fuel related issues, it is really pathetic how most, not all people maintain their saws. Not the AS member type but the average guy. Even tygon line will shrink, Stihl has come oout with a green fuel line that supposedly will not be effected by the alcohol. Poulan/Craftsman saws build in the last few years are the worst, I would say 9 out of 10 get new fuel line, tank vent line and primer line. I rebuild three to five carbs a day, some require a couple of seven minute trips through the ultra sonic to get them working, some are just beyond rebuilding because of the crud sucked through them and them left to ruin the inside of the carb. We keep a couple of boxes containing prolly 500 used carbs in each box, instead of sticking them with the price of a new carb we'll try to rebuild one off a junk saw first and charge them 50% of a new carb price.