woodchipper95
ArboristSite Guru
Is anyone on here certified in Game of logging?
Game of Logging
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Ruh roh. 
Logging shouldn't be a game...
Anyway good luck on that, game of logging is kind of a joke in these parts, wait no its a complete joke that isn't very funny in these parts.
But its a good course for those that don't know what they are doing, it just shouldn't have the word logging in it.
Anyway good luck on that, game of logging is kind of a joke in these parts, wait no its a complete joke that isn't very funny in these parts.
But its a good course for those that don't know what they are doing, it just shouldn't have the word logging in it.
Huh. Haven't had one of these threads in awhile. I guess it's probably worth a few comments.
GOL techniques are solid enough, but they are most often taught as though they are the only way to do things, which is simply not the case. Their insistence on open faces and tripping a trigger behind a bored backcut have the cutter working harder than necessary and spending way more time under the tree than necessary, and the combination of the two leave no opportunity to steer the tree in any way once it starts to tip. There's nothing wrong with the method, fundamentally, but it should not be taken as the final answer to all tree problems.
GOL techniques are solid enough, but they are most often taught as though they are the only way to do things, which is simply not the case. Their insistence on open faces and tripping a trigger behind a bored backcut have the cutter working harder than necessary and spending way more time under the tree than necessary, and the combination of the two leave no opportunity to steer the tree in any way once it starts to tip. There's nothing wrong with the method, fundamentally, but it should not be taken as the final answer to all tree problems.
{*Op's second forum posting^^^^^}
No but you're smart enough to get a degree so you should get smart enough to download the new standards and if you are going to challenge a falling exam you should have all this studied before hand??? BC Fallers have flip books that we are required to have close by for referal. It won't be as easy as you think,You are not going to walk in there and ace it. Illprepared and practiced, You won't even pass.
Falling the tree is just a little part.
Site overviews,falling plans,sidebinds,(compression wood,tention wood) heavy leaner, small diameter against the lean, barracades, signage, ribboning, Hydration, stretching, MSI awareness & prevention, conditioning, rest,concentration, mental stability, ATTATUDE, HUMILITY, openness to learn, knowing your limits,alternative methods, measuring rainfall,monitoring wind,Maturity, hypo/hyperthermia training (controlling your environment)brushing of standing timber,degression,safety trails, use of stight lines, checking corners,use of dogs, use of chain brakes,looks up,( watches canopy) proper use of wedges to name a few off my head.
That takes care of about 6 or 7 pages prehaps out of 24 ...Yeah ...maybe a few pages are about falling cuts including percentages, the "when and when not to's".
30% of your mark here is ; The going about falling of the tree and 15% is for falling the tree.
I think you are starting to get the hint.
This makes you neither certified, qualified or bonified to pack my gas.
What's a matter with you,you posted in another forum for entertainment? You think you are going to go out there and bust a falling exam through a few posts on the internet.
You come across as pretty insulting on that other post.
"want to o win a saw" We do it for the passion of it. We have a saying and that is "If you do it for the money you are going to get hurt or killed.
I'm glad you think the most dangerous Industry in NA (logging) and the most dangerous job in NA is somewhat of a joke to you " I want to win a saw" I would put both my falling saws on the line that you couldn't get 90% based on you not having a glue as to what's expected and any kind of practice with it. I just are not going to help a guy under false pretenses with motivation or otherwise. I give my time to serious people only so go back and have your joke thread where you started and welcome back if you show serious intent and growth in the future but you are no where near ready IMHO
I cant speak for everyone but I don't personally know any Fallers that wouldn't have this reaction. Most wouldn't have given you this much time.
No but you're smart enough to get a degree so you should get smart enough to download the new standards and if you are going to challenge a falling exam you should have all this studied before hand??? BC Fallers have flip books that we are required to have close by for referal. It won't be as easy as you think,You are not going to walk in there and ace it. Illprepared and practiced, You won't even pass.
Falling the tree is just a little part.
Site overviews,falling plans,sidebinds,(compression wood,tention wood) heavy leaner, small diameter against the lean, barracades, signage, ribboning, Hydration, stretching, MSI awareness & prevention, conditioning, rest,concentration, mental stability, ATTATUDE, HUMILITY, openness to learn, knowing your limits,alternative methods, measuring rainfall,monitoring wind,Maturity, hypo/hyperthermia training (controlling your environment)brushing of standing timber,degression,safety trails, use of stight lines, checking corners,use of dogs, use of chain brakes,looks up,( watches canopy) proper use of wedges to name a few off my head.
That takes care of about 6 or 7 pages prehaps out of 24 ...Yeah ...maybe a few pages are about falling cuts including percentages, the "when and when not to's".
30% of your mark here is ; The going about falling of the tree and 15% is for falling the tree.
I think you are starting to get the hint.
This makes you neither certified, qualified or bonified to pack my gas.
What's a matter with you,you posted in another forum for entertainment? You think you are going to go out there and bust a falling exam through a few posts on the internet.
You come across as pretty insulting on that other post.
"want to o win a saw" We do it for the passion of it. We have a saying and that is "If you do it for the money you are going to get hurt or killed.
I'm glad you think the most dangerous Industry in NA (logging) and the most dangerous job in NA is somewhat of a joke to you " I want to win a saw" I would put both my falling saws on the line that you couldn't get 90% based on you not having a glue as to what's expected and any kind of practice with it. I just are not going to help a guy under false pretenses with motivation or otherwise. I give my time to serious people only so go back and have your joke thread where you started and welcome back if you show serious intent and growth in the future but you are no where near ready IMHO
I cant speak for everyone but I don't personally know any Fallers that wouldn't have this reaction. Most wouldn't have given you this much time.
KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
Certification mean nothing really, all it says is that you passed a test. Taking it from the book and applying it in the real world is what really matters.
I know some guys that have all the certs possible and shouldn't even be allowed to use a hand saw let alone a chain saw.
I know some guys that have all the certs possible and shouldn't even be allowed to use a hand saw let alone a chain saw.
Quote slowp: "Ruh roh"
Yiiikes..you can say that again scoob
Yiiikes..you can say that again scoob
dhskier2
ArboristSite Operative
In case I missed the sarcasm in your rhetoric- The OP's referencing a chainsaw safety training and operating course called Game Of Logging (as Northman said, terrible name).... not the general profession being a game of certification standards
RandyMac
Stiff Member
flipbook fallers...LMAO!!!
SliverPicker
ArboristSite Guru
What is a "flip book". (Serious question.)
I think it was a "flip book Faller"LMAO , AKA "The Metric Generation & The Flip Book Fallers"
A flip book in this case is the size of a reg piece of paper and made out of heavy paper it unfolds length ways and all cutting procedures are over laped like a folder in a sense with the label visible on the bottom of each procedure. The pages ( approx 4" X 4" ) flip up not to the side.
I don't know if someone here is stretching the imagination and has visions of fallers referring to the flip books to make a fall , hence; flipbookfaller. It is a funny image with the name to boot...lol
Now referring to blasting tree procedures may be different for Fallers.
A flip book in this case is the size of a reg piece of paper and made out of heavy paper it unfolds length ways and all cutting procedures are over laped like a folder in a sense with the label visible on the bottom of each procedure. The pages ( approx 4" X 4" ) flip up not to the side.
I don't know if someone here is stretching the imagination and has visions of fallers referring to the flip books to make a fall , hence; flipbookfaller. It is a funny image with the name to boot...lol
Now referring to blasting tree procedures may be different for Fallers.
SliverPicker
ArboristSite Guru
Thanks. I guess I was thinking wrong. I couldn't figure out what you where talking about. Its a literal book.
I was dropped (repeatedly) as a child.
I was dropped (repeatedly) as a child.
woodchipper95
ArboristSite Guru
Well, this Saturday we'll find out if I can pass. I know I will. I will post my certification just for you and more score if given to me. I have practiced and I posted it in here as well simply because another member suggest that I do so.{*Op's second forum posting^^^^^}
No but you're smart enough to get a degree so you should get smart enough to download the new standards and if you are going to challenge a falling exam you should have all this studied before hand??? BC Fallers have flip books that we are required to have close by for referal. It won't be as easy as you think,You are not going to walk in there and ace it. Illprepared and practiced, You won't even pass.
Falling the tree is just a little part.
Site overviews,falling plans,sidebinds,(compression wood,tention wood) heavy leaner, small diameter against the lean, barracades, signage, ribboning, Hydration, stretching, MSI awareness & prevention, conditioning, rest,concentration, mental stability, ATTATUDE, HUMILITY, openness to learn, knowing your limits,alternative methods, measuring rainfall,monitoring wind,Maturity, hypo/hyperthermia training (controlling your environment)brushing of standing timber,degression,safety trails, use of stight lines, checking corners,use of dogs, use of chain brakes,looks up,( watches canopy) proper use of wedges to name a few off my head.
That takes care of about 6 or 7 pages prehaps out of 24 ...Yeah ...maybe a few pages are about falling cuts including percentages, the "when and when not to's".
30% of your mark here is ; The going about falling of the tree and 15% is for falling the tree.
I think you are starting to get the hint.
This makes you neither certified, qualified or bonified to pack my gas.
What's a matter with you,you posted in another forum for entertainment? You think you are going to go out there and bust a falling exam through a few posts on the internet.
You come across as pretty insulting on that other post.
"want to o win a saw" We do it for the passion of it. We have a saying and that is "If you do it for the money you are going to get hurt or killed.
I'm glad you think the most dangerous Industry in NA (logging) and the most dangerous job in NA is somewhat of a joke to you " I want to win a saw" I would put both my falling saws on the line that you couldn't get 90% based on you not having a glue as to what's expected and any kind of practice with it. I just are not going to help a guy under false pretenses with motivation or otherwise. I give my time to serious people only so go back and have your joke thread where you started and welcome back if you show serious intent and growth in the future but you are no where near ready IMHO
I cant speak for everyone but I don't personally know any Fallers that wouldn't have this reaction. Most wouldn't have given you this much time.
Its not the fact that you posted it here that contributed to the way I felt. It came across as a bit off a cocky mockery to one that has given Blood sweat and tears to a profession.
Considering you just asked a question in this fourn I was the one that didn't stick to the format and regret not posting to your Original OP on the other forum.
As well, previously in my time here I had never heard anything negative about GOL
and that led me to believe they were
respected and practiced methods and a much improved teaching to counter the source of extremely high compensation rates you guys face. I have personally googled GOL once as I was trying to bridge the gap and don't recall anything drastic that stood out as conflicting to my teachings in the "New Word Order" at a quick glance anyhow. And I learnt what GOL stands for.
I suppose I'll need to revisit before I can forum an opinion.
Good luck with thing
Stay safe
Considering you just asked a question in this fourn I was the one that didn't stick to the format and regret not posting to your Original OP on the other forum.
As well, previously in my time here I had never heard anything negative about GOL
and that led me to believe they were
respected and practiced methods and a much improved teaching to counter the source of extremely high compensation rates you guys face. I have personally googled GOL once as I was trying to bridge the gap and don't recall anything drastic that stood out as conflicting to my teachings in the "New Word Order" at a quick glance anyhow. And I learnt what GOL stands for.
I suppose I'll need to revisit before I can forum an opinion.
Good luck with thing
Stay safe
treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
boaster, just curios, but i thought out your way every one face and back cut? as in traditional directional falling?
I'm gathering that GOL is bore cutting they use when not necessary? As I said; I admit to being ignorant, I said I looked up GOL and "at a glance there was nothing unusual but would no longer have an opinion until I understood more. I was looking at the technique I'm sure,, and not about when to use it. If they think it should be used all the time then that's Phucked.
We use beavertails and straps, diamond cuts and Falling off the lean for YOUR usual and then we have what can be our usual. There are other ways that will kill you quick as a barberchair in some ground like going down with a giant rootmat, tree and all. In big Cedar country on hills/rock you can't manipulate or stall certain trees. Even if there was no such thing as barberchairing' or uprooting you still need to finish at a top high/safe corner on big wood.
That means boring one side to where you want to be out of the way and then bore the other to meet the high corner. I came from a background of spacing (thinning) Forestry would have us fall the snags and spiketop cedars with generally no training and little bars. I'd love to go back and look at those stumps...lol. I know it was Scarry at times on a hill because you could here them crack and I'd be down the hill cutting towards the holding wood. You are pretty much underneath it. Scarry stuff.
I'm glad for all my training now but I can't say the same for all my experiences but lucky to be here. I was not broken in to production Falling untill '97 ...8 years of trying to figure it out by myself before hand.
Pain is unfortunately the quickest way to learn and you won't **** on your suspenders twice..figuratively speaking.
We use beavertails and straps, diamond cuts and Falling off the lean for YOUR usual and then we have what can be our usual. There are other ways that will kill you quick as a barberchair in some ground like going down with a giant rootmat, tree and all. In big Cedar country on hills/rock you can't manipulate or stall certain trees. Even if there was no such thing as barberchairing' or uprooting you still need to finish at a top high/safe corner on big wood.
That means boring one side to where you want to be out of the way and then bore the other to meet the high corner. I came from a background of spacing (thinning) Forestry would have us fall the snags and spiketop cedars with generally no training and little bars. I'd love to go back and look at those stumps...lol. I know it was Scarry at times on a hill because you could here them crack and I'd be down the hill cutting towards the holding wood. You are pretty much underneath it. Scarry stuff.
I'm glad for all my training now but I can't say the same for all my experiences but lucky to be here. I was not broken in to production Falling untill '97 ...8 years of trying to figure it out by myself before hand.
Pain is unfortunately the quickest way to learn and you won't **** on your suspenders twice..figuratively speaking.
Once again, (sigh) I will post my experience with actually going to 2 days of GOL training.
Out of curiosity, I paid the fee and went to their beginning course. I am not, and have not been a faller. My experience level was working on a thinning/cleaning up crew, firewood hack, and officially certified B bucker with the Forest Service. Oh, and working out on logging units checking contract compliance for many years. I did pack a bit of gear for one of our excellent local fallers whilst we identified and he cut hazard trees along a road. That was entertaining.
Our instructor was Ken Some sort of a French sounding last name that somebody on here is familiar with. He was a production faller in the Mideast--from Wisconsin. He dressed up in all the fluorescent gear. Day 1: He covered safety, saw stuff, chain sharpening, basics. It was mostly classroom, with a trip out where he cut down a big hardwood. The latter did not go as planned.
He quickly went to plan B and got the tree down. I can't remember what was the problem, but the bore cut was not going to work which he realized after part way through the thing.
Day 2: We went out into the woods and we did two trees each. We could bore cut them or conventionally cut them. I paired up with a logger. It's hard to work with somebody you don't know, at least it is for me. We also had a third guy with us and he was scary. He started to grab the bar of my saw while it was running. I am a firm believer in the setting of the chain brake, so I automatically was putting that on and the instructor was about to hit the guy's hand with an axe handle, but my braking beat the handle. The instructor pulled me aside and thanked me. The other folks were mainly from the Seattle parks dept. and were pretty new to everything.
This course was not totally about bore cutting. We went over humboldts, coos bay and releasing spring poles. I found out I'd been doing one method of the latter totally backwards. He covered and demonstrated such things like putting in the back cut first, on small trees and the boring through to the face cut so a wedge could fit in.
Unlike the general opinion on here, I did not leave with the assurance that I was now an expert and ready to go out and work as a production faller. That was never ever implied during the course. In fact, we were told we were armed only with the basics, and another course was coming up later. I didn't go to that.
I tried using the bore cuts when I got back and a friend wanted some trees thinned out. Most were too small for that but it did work on a couple. The problem with working in that stand was that the trees were limb locked and too small to have enough mass to work through. I finally gave up and suggested letting the trees get bigger and hiring a buncher to log them or clearcut the patch.
Since most of the folks don't have the opportunity to learn from pros, it was a good safety course. I felt that the class size was too big.
I still enjoy cutting the smaller trees, and I still get nervous and sweaty on the bigger small trees. I do not mess with normal or large trees. Them's my rules.
I used to really enjoy thinning in the pole sized lodgepole. They'd usually obey and go where I wanted them to go, weren't too scary, and you could look back and see what havoc you'd wreaked. I'd go home tired and with a peaceful feeling.
Out of curiosity, I paid the fee and went to their beginning course. I am not, and have not been a faller. My experience level was working on a thinning/cleaning up crew, firewood hack, and officially certified B bucker with the Forest Service. Oh, and working out on logging units checking contract compliance for many years. I did pack a bit of gear for one of our excellent local fallers whilst we identified and he cut hazard trees along a road. That was entertaining.
Our instructor was Ken Some sort of a French sounding last name that somebody on here is familiar with. He was a production faller in the Mideast--from Wisconsin. He dressed up in all the fluorescent gear. Day 1: He covered safety, saw stuff, chain sharpening, basics. It was mostly classroom, with a trip out where he cut down a big hardwood. The latter did not go as planned.
He quickly went to plan B and got the tree down. I can't remember what was the problem, but the bore cut was not going to work which he realized after part way through the thing.
Day 2: We went out into the woods and we did two trees each. We could bore cut them or conventionally cut them. I paired up with a logger. It's hard to work with somebody you don't know, at least it is for me. We also had a third guy with us and he was scary. He started to grab the bar of my saw while it was running. I am a firm believer in the setting of the chain brake, so I automatically was putting that on and the instructor was about to hit the guy's hand with an axe handle, but my braking beat the handle. The instructor pulled me aside and thanked me. The other folks were mainly from the Seattle parks dept. and were pretty new to everything.
This course was not totally about bore cutting. We went over humboldts, coos bay and releasing spring poles. I found out I'd been doing one method of the latter totally backwards. He covered and demonstrated such things like putting in the back cut first, on small trees and the boring through to the face cut so a wedge could fit in.
Unlike the general opinion on here, I did not leave with the assurance that I was now an expert and ready to go out and work as a production faller. That was never ever implied during the course. In fact, we were told we were armed only with the basics, and another course was coming up later. I didn't go to that.
I tried using the bore cuts when I got back and a friend wanted some trees thinned out. Most were too small for that but it did work on a couple. The problem with working in that stand was that the trees were limb locked and too small to have enough mass to work through. I finally gave up and suggested letting the trees get bigger and hiring a buncher to log them or clearcut the patch.
Since most of the folks don't have the opportunity to learn from pros, it was a good safety course. I felt that the class size was too big.
I still enjoy cutting the smaller trees, and I still get nervous and sweaty on the bigger small trees. I do not mess with normal or large trees. Them's my rules.
I used to really enjoy thinning in the pole sized lodgepole. They'd usually obey and go where I wanted them to go, weren't too scary, and you could look back and see what havoc you'd wreaked. I'd go home tired and with a peaceful feeling.
Here are pictures of the cutting of the big tree. Maybe you fallers
can figure out what went wrong. I think it had something to do with more rot in the tree than estimated.
can figure out what went wrong. I think it had something to do with more rot in the tree than estimated.
Thanks, I enjoyed that read.
It makes me understand a little more. Sounds like an average entry level course.
What went wrong?
That's the big tree that the instructor tried to bore I believe.
The second to last pic looks like a half of an undercut cut out? I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at there.
Anyway I can unravel most of the puzzle I'm sure.
First off, that's a maple I do believe and on my pre Falling assessment I see heart rot fungus with a big cat face.
Maple has the tendency to have multi stemps with a lot of extreme extended weight. Obviously this is a candidate to sound test with your axe and maybe bore in the with the fibers where the undercut would go. (In this case with the lean is the only option and would require a strap.
It just seemed he was off the lean a lot in puncky wood and was experiencing side bind in the bore. Meaning; He could feel the downward presure on his bar tip. Even solid wood it wouldn't be uncommon with Maple. Think it was a poor assessment and inexperience in this timber type.
It appears the tree was cut/broke of the side parrel with "The Holding wood" looking at the splinters from the compression on the stump.
OK Slowp
"There's those that teach and those that do"
It makes me understand a little more. Sounds like an average entry level course.
What went wrong?
That's the big tree that the instructor tried to bore I believe.
The second to last pic looks like a half of an undercut cut out? I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at there.
Anyway I can unravel most of the puzzle I'm sure.
First off, that's a maple I do believe and on my pre Falling assessment I see heart rot fungus with a big cat face.
Maple has the tendency to have multi stemps with a lot of extreme extended weight. Obviously this is a candidate to sound test with your axe and maybe bore in the with the fibers where the undercut would go. (In this case with the lean is the only option and would require a strap.
It just seemed he was off the lean a lot in puncky wood and was experiencing side bind in the bore. Meaning; He could feel the downward presure on his bar tip. Even solid wood it wouldn't be uncommon with Maple. Think it was a poor assessment and inexperience in this timber type.
It appears the tree was cut/broke of the side parrel with "The Holding wood" looking at the splinters from the compression on the stump.
OK Slowp
"There's those that teach and those that do"
Maybe that picture was him trying to make a Dutchman with the half under cut. Imagine showing that to a class.
