Gas without ethanol

[procarbine2k1]

If you're close to a lake or river, check at the marinas.
I buy my non ethanol 93 octane at a gas station not far from a lake.

x2. Both of my marinas have E-free.

 

[shovelheas]

I agree with n murph...I think it's more of an old wives tale


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It is definitely not an old wives tale. I bought a new Stihl hedge trimmer ( hs45 I think). Only used it in the summer, by the second year it had issues. This was running super unleaded e10 w/ stihl ultra. I had to rebuild the carb a couple times before I fixed it (something microscopic behind the needle accelerator pump thing).

All my small engines, both 2&4 stroke, run avgas now except a dirt bike and my new Dolmar that run VP SEF94( small engine fuel 94 octane ethanol free). Everything seems to love the avgas and no worries ever about gas problems. The Yamaha dirt bike and new Dolmar are recommended to be lead-free so I run the sef94 but it's expensive at $67 for 5 gallons at the Yamaha dealer.

 

[shovelheas]

I agree with n murph...I think it's more of an old wives tale


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is definitely not an old wives tale. I bought a new Stihl hedge trimmer ( hs45 I think). Only used it in the summer, by the second year it had issues. This was running super unleaded e10 w/ stihl ultra. I had to rebuild the carb a couple times before I fixed it (something microscopic behind the needle accelerator pump thing).

All my small engines, both 2&4 stroke, run avgas now except a dirt bike and my new Dolmar that run VP SEF94( small engine fuel 94 octane ethanol free). Everything seems to love the avgas and no worries ever about gas problems. The Yamaha dirt bike and new Dolmar are recommended to be lead-free so I run the sef94 but it's expensive at $67 for 5 gallons at the Yamaha dealer.

 

[shovelheas]

I agree with n murph...I think it's more of an old wives tale


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is definitely not an old wives tale. I bought a new Stihl hedge trimmer ( hs45 I think). Only used it in the summer, by the second year it had issues. This was running super unleaded e10 w/ stihl ultra. I had to rebuild the carb a couple times before I fixed it (something microscopic behind the needle accelerator pump thing).

All my small engines, both 2&4 stroke, run avgas now except a dirt bike and my new Dolmar that run VP SEF94( small engine fuel 94 octane ethanol free). Everything seems to love the avgas and no worries ever about gas problems. The Yamaha dirt bike and new Dolmar are recommended to be lead-free so I run the sef94 but it's expensive at $67 for 5 gallons at the Yamaha dealer.

 

[shovelheas]

Sorry for multiple posts. Tapatalk said it didn't work and then it did and when I deleted one, it posted another. Sigh.

 

[Philip Wheelock]

These days I'm buying E10 high octane once or twice a week and add Ultra, which contains a stabilizer. Saws stored for the winter have Motomix run through them. Don't have the time or money to go looking for non-ethanol gas. The guy next door could use it, though. He parks his saws for six or eight months and then they either don't start or run poorly.

 

[eyolf]

Back after a long hiatus; I see ethanol (and probably oil) is still popular. I hear that hackers caused huge trouble so old threads from way back are probably not available.
Phil W., above has pretty much pegged it. Like anything on the internet, a couple of earlier responses are a little less "accurate", LOL.

I don't have a tester: old gas that has already absorbed a little water might make you think its nearly alky-free. Any clear bottle will help guess-timate in a pinch. High-octane fuels are no problem, except cost, and in very cold weather. In MN we recently had 35 below; racing gas would be hard to start then, but so would a sawyer, LOL! Lead (and the phosphorus Standard Oil used at one time) are an effective lube for valve seats in 4-strokes, but have little to add to two-cycles, except a little shorter plug life; the hard, bubble, brown fouling we used to see was from this. Plugs are cheap and nobody gets bent over replacing one now and then, anyway.
If you need to store gas, here in Mn its no problem from November to March; its usually cold, too cold to see much humidity in the air, but April and May, plus October are often cool and damp; I mix gas as I need it and throw leftovers in a tractor.

"Octane" refers to octane rating. way back in the 1920's it was learned that some fuels knocked badly, some not so much. Pure octane (8 carbon atoms in a straight chain) knocks awful. Iso-octane (8 carbons with a bend or a branch) resisted pretty well: Pure iso-octane got a rating of 100. Benzine and Toluene (carbons in a loop) have ratings even higher---up to like 125, but are spendy. Racing gas has a lot of toluene.

The most knowledgable fellow I know (family operates a bulk business, hauls product for about 40 independants, and owns a chain of convenience stores) says gas is "Splash-blended. That means, in our local case, the refinery storage depot stores regular gas, (87 octane) and blends in a ratio of isomers (remember iso-octane?) to a tanker truck nearly full of reg gas to get to 89 and 92 octane, Finally, they throw in the vodka (his term, LOL!) but seldom measure carefully. E10 can be "up to E14", but usually hovers around E8. The trucker has some control over this by being a little creative...leaving little room for the "juice" by hauling a couple hundred gallons of gas into the refinery with him. Everyone hates the juice, but its really only a serious problem when atmospheric moisture is high. Folks in the deep south, where that's over half the year: I feel bad for you. Moral: learn to listen to your tune.

 

[o8f150]

there is a place in Paducah ky that is e free... I have tested it several times

 

[firebrick43]

I,ve also been running av100 for a few years with zero problems to speak of. I suppose if you run a newer EPA saw with a CAT, you might have troubles? I know they'll never introduce the corn liquor into AV fuel since many aircraft would likely end up dropping from the skies like lead balloons

Purdue university is testing a aviation biofuel. Contains ethanol but is modified somehow

 

[fordf150]

Try your local bulk fuel places like agland and such. Locally we can get 90 octane e-free for about 40 cents a gallon more than high test. Only catch is must buy it in 55 gallon drums

 

[A10egress]

Purdue university is testing a aviation biofuel. Contains ethanol but is modified somehow

the USAF has a A-10 that has successfully flown on Biofuel. http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2012/07/03/air-force-tests-jet-using-gevo-biofuel.html

 

[Coldfront]

Who has ever tested any of it? They could bs'ing us all, and who would ever know? I only buy the non eth. 91 or 92 oct. from the nearest big town that does a lot of business and has a separate gas hose for each grade of gas. They call the non eth. ATV gas off road gas

 

[bigv]

The test kits for ethanol are available at most dealerships that are competent, because believe me, they check. You should too. If it is on the same pump(same hose) as other gas, make sure you do what someone else on here said, top off you car, and then put some in your DRY & CLEAN jerry can. Test it. Get the tester that shows the percentage of ethanol, one of those is basically testing the specific gravity of fuel, I like it best. You can get a dye that will react in presence of water or ethanol, that dye is typically cheaper, but then again you don't know how much ethanol you're dealing with.

A test kit that shows percentages eliminates the question of how much.

When in winter, a lot of fuel distributors sell a winter mix gasoline. That can be either less than 10%, or sometimes way, way more. I've found 18% ethanol at a gas station near the FL/GA state line. That was supposed to be E10.

If you are in an area that sells E-15, you REALLY need to check, because over-blending is easy and cost effective for the oil company shysters that make 8 billion per quarter in profit.

I think you are gambling running E-10 in our small engines, regardless of age, regardless of any additives you may use. It eats up the fuel lines, the diaphragms, and the gaskets, it varnishes solid to crystalline grit, and it promotes washing of the cylinder walls.

My opinion on AV Gas:

AV Gas will lower RPM's, make less power, is a waste of the octane, and being oxygenated- it is a good way to have one go lean and burn up. You better run it fat and even then, you're still taking a risk, and you're going to be making even less power than before.

AV Gas is specially formulated to be super oxygenated to compensate for its use at high altitudes. We aren't at those altitudes.

That's why in performance cars and performance bikes, you don't run AV gas, you get race gas that has high octane and isn't oxygenated.

 

[nmurph]

V, OPE manufacturers switched to ethanol resistant materials in the early 2000's- that includes diaphragms and lines.

Two weeks ago I grabbed a ported 346 which had been sitting since late last spring with the E10/Ultra mix in it. It started and ran just as well on the remnants in that tank of mix as it did after it was refilled.

BTW, ethanol can absorb very little water from the atmosphere. It does lose a couple of octane point over time, but it is not a problem for at least two months and the is without any stabilizers.

 

[Gologit]

The test kits for ethanol are available at most dealerships that are competent, because believe me, they check. You should too. If it is on the same pump(same hose) as other gas, make sure you do what someone else on here said, top off you car, and then put some in your DRY & CLEAN jerry can. Test it. Get the tester that shows the percentage of ethanol, one of those is basically testing the specific gravity of fuel, I like it best. You can get a dye that will react in presence of water or ethanol, that dye is typically cheaper, but then again you don't know how much ethanol you're dealing with.

A test kit that shows percentages eliminates the question of how much.

When in winter, a lot of fuel distributors sell a winter mix gasoline. That can be either less than 10%, or sometimes way, way more. I've found 18% ethanol at a gas station near the FL/GA state line. That was supposed to be E10.

If you are in an area that sells E-15, you REALLY need to check, because over-blending is easy and cost effective for the oil company shysters that make 8 billion per quarter in profit.

I think you are gambling running E-10 in our small engines, regardless of age, regardless of any additives you may use. It eats up the fuel lines, the diaphragms, and the gaskets, it varnishes solid to crystalline grit, and it promotes washing of the cylinder walls.

My opinion on AV Gas:

AV Gas will lower RPM's, make less power, is a waste of the octane, and being oxygenated- it is a good way to have one go lean and burn up. You better run it fat and even then, you're still taking a risk, and you're going to be making even less power than before.

AV Gas is specially formulated to be super oxygenated to compensate for its use at high altitudes. We aren't at those altitudes.

That's why in performance cars and performance bikes, you don't run AV gas, you get race gas that has high octane and isn't oxygenated.

Have you actually used avgas for any length of time? You might want to spend some time around people that are using it on a daily basis and see what they think of it.
Most of the guys I work with have switched to it because of it's consistency and shelf life. Auto gas in our area is all over the board in actual E content, octane, and contaminants. We've had gas tested from different stations and it even varies from day to day with each new delivery. You never really know what you're getting. The pump labels are just a joke.
Avgas is refined to very strict standards and it's quality doesn't vary from day to day and place to place. It's filtered at the refinery and filtered at the delivery point.
I've been running avgas in my saws for several years. If there's a performance loss it's not noticeable and believe me I'd be the first one to notice...and to do something about it. Most of the fallers I work with use avgas and we've talked about it, pro and con, until the topic is worn out. The only bad point about avgas is price and availability. No big deal, price is just an allowable business expense and availability can be planned for by thinking ahead.
I make my living with my saws and I don't need any extra problems. I cut at elevations from sea level to 7500 msl and I've never had a saw problem, performance or otherwise, that was gas related.
Sure I'd like to see a stable, dependable, non leaded, non-E pump gas that was readily available but that's not going to happen any time soon.
In the meantime I'll keep running my saws on avgas. I run my airplane on it, too.


Edit...I don't mean to sound like I'm pimping av-gas here. It works for me and that's what I based my statement on. I don't really care what anybody else runs...their saw, their choice. But if you're looking for a good grade of gas that you can count on it's worth a try.

 

[anlrolfe]

Anyone know anything about this product?

Marathon Recreational 90/91

AKA "Marina 90/91"

http://www.examiner.com/article/buy-non-ethanol-gasoline-marathon-recreational-gasolines

Lost of talk about AV gas. These still contain TetraEthyl Lead and are in the process of being phased out anyway.

 

[Heilman181]

I understand that mixed gas has a "shelf" life. Without starting a HUGE debate, what is an "average" timeframe to keep it before it is deemed bad gas?

How long should you keep NON-mixed gas? Does E10 have any different shelf life than NON-ethanol gas?

 

[1Alpha1]

I had a Stihl FS-44 line trimmer that I bought new back in 1996. I used reg. pump gas and reg. oil for the mix for as long as I had the trimmer. 17 yrs. of use, and I never had any issues with it.

What I did do after using it, was to clean it top to bottom, dump the remaining fuel in the tank, start it back up, and let it idle until it stopped on it's own. Back in 1996, it cost me $199.00 + tax. I sold it in 2013, and because of it's superb condition, I got $125.00 for it. It does pay off to maintain your equip. in great condition.

I have since upgraded my line trimmer to a FS-250R. It wasn't cheap to buy. Neither was my HT-131 Pole Pruner. Because of my investment in both, I now use 40:1 TruFuel. I also use it in both of my saws as well.

When my supply of TruFuel goes, I may go back to using E-10 pump gas and Stihl Ultra HD oil. Even if / when I do, I will still dump the fuel (save it though) after use and then re-start the machine and let it idle until it dies.

By using the Stihl Ultra HD oil and dumping the fuel after each use, and even when using E-10 gas, you will most likely avoid any issues or problems.

 

[Heilman181]

if / when I do, I will still dump the fuel (save it though) after use and then re-start the machine and let it idle until it dies.

1.) How long do you keep that mixed fuel?

2.) Does allowing an engine to run out of fuel cause a lean condition?

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[dboyd351]

BTW, ethanol can absorb very little water from the atmosphere. It does lose a couple of octane point over time, but it is not a problem for at least two months and the is without any stabilizers.

Guess that's why many versions of dry gas treatments used alcohol to absorb water?