Geothermal vs Woodheat

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Interesting?

So has anyone here used this set up or something similar? It seems like the wind is always blowing around here and I have often wondered about wind power? Ideas?


The Idea from the start is to use energy the right way. If you use geo,then you want to eliminate cost by going with wind. www.mag-wind.com ( for example) and solar. The combination of all three gives you every thing you need without destroying enviroment and save large amounts of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Grant It there are large up front cost,but there are grants and rebates that make it possible even on a budget. radiant flooring,waterless heaters, lighting, enviro products are the way of the future. saving $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ feels good when you are not hurting any body or anything.
 
PLJ, can you share with the rest of us the make/model of your system please

Wow, what a beautiful place you live in. My wife & I would love to spend some time up your way, maybe eventually buy a vacation/hunting property ... as soon as we get some free time, the boys & work keep us busy! I bookmarked your home page, hope you dont mind.

My system - I have a Water Furnace E series. When I bought it 3 years ago, there are more efficient brands on the market. But the best GT guy I could find deals with this brand, so I bought it. (a knowledgeable setup was important to me.) Important features in my opinion:
  • multiple heating zones with automatic dampers. Although at 1100 sq ft that probably doesnt apply to you.
  • multiple speed fan for efficiency and less air movement
  • return ducts
  • fractional voltage water pump

I insulated under my basement floor before pouring the concrete, and put in pex tubing for radiant heat. The basement floor is now effectively 1 big heat sink, works great. The rest of the house is forced air. FYI, the contractor that did my system was a bit anal about where the ducts and vents go, in order to minimize "felt air movement" in the house. I'm glad I listened to him - we feel no air movement at all unless we put a hand over a vent.

I put in 20% more ground loop than was required. That way if I ever have a problem in a loop, I can close it off and still have 100% of requirements met. The trenches were dug, the incremental cost to do it was just the tubing, which was cheap, so why not. Also I think that the additional loop capacity improves my efficiency a bit, but I have no data to support that.

The compressor is one of the keys to efficiency, so be sure to look closely at that.

I was initially concerned that the system would not keep the house warm when it gets really cold out down (near 0 F) so I had the contractor oversize the system a little bit, I asked for 10% larger than I need. I'm not certain as to the effect of that. I also have the "toasters" (electric resistance) built into the system. They have not kicked in yet - I actually test them once a year to make sure they are working.

If you can get your loops into the water, I think that will help a lot.

FYI, I did mean what I said about "doing the math." Please do, (including the heat study) its really rather easy. It is certainly possible that your situation will not work out with GT.

Feel free to ask more questions, I'll answer what I can.
 
So has anyone here used this set up or something similar? It seems like the wind is always blowing around here and I have often wondered about wind power? Ideas?

I agree with bulletbob 99%.
I looked into adding a windmill to run my GT. Unfortunately the wind maps indicated that my wind is just below the minimum recommended for wind power. Check a wind map, that will let you know if it's practical for you.

Wind isnt so good for me, but I have a lot of exposed roof at home and at a business location, so I am currently looking into PV solar. My goal is to get paid for electricity, not to pay for it. (I'm not talking about investing 1000s to make $10, I require a fairly quick payback, 6 to 8 years maximum) Possible? Maybe, maybe not. If our government ever comes thru with some of the tax incentives I'm hearing about, I'll jump on it.
 
Go Geothermal !

Its very popular here in sweden and the new systems gives you back 4-5 the energy you put in to the heating pump. My frind have drill a 218 yd hole and the energy cost for the house is 1100 $ for one year.And its not a small house.
Good luck
 
PLJ...Thanks...the cottage on Alcock Lake is a rental, I had a couple fellas up from Michigan in Nov for the white tail hunt and they are coming back next year:clap: .
Summertime is great there and once I retire (one day soon I hope:dizzy: ) I am going to build next door and will have a look at the Waterfurnace line. Actually a friend of mine installed one (a Waterfurnace) in his place about 7 years ago and he still loves it, even though by todays standard its old technology. He heats and cools, lights etc a 1800 sq/ft place for less than $100/month (his place is completely electric).
 
Am I reading this correctly that the closed loop geothermal systems use refridgerant?

..........and if that is the case, isn't there a possibilty that the kind of refridgerant your system uses could possibly be outlawed by the gov't at some future date?

I did some digging around, but didn't find too many details.
 
Am I reading this correctly that the closed loop geothermal systems use refridgerant?
There is a refridgerant in the compressor, but it is the newer "approved" type, I'm not up on the details. In the underground loops you can use a variety of liquids, I know people that use water, RV antifreeze, and car antifreeze. Mine uses methanol.
 
Methanol wouldn't be bad; don't see how they could really outlaw that.

But the new "approved" refridgerant, doesn't always stay that way.

I have done some digging in the past, and the gov't is slowly pushing to replace the R-134 that we use in the cars now.
 
I have had my geothermal unit up and running 2 years now...ITS AWESOME!!!!

i have a 6ton unit with a closed loop system...its quite, it provides my air conditioing , and heating, and hot water.....my house is 3800sqft..and even in -30 the electric back up does not come on....so it can really suck some heat out of the ground....

no issues so far..no mess...no noise.....no flames....


BTW....i am a firewood processor :)

I have 2 firewood units in the house as backup in case the power goes down...

plus....what other heating system can you eventually hook up a wind turbine too and be 100% off the grid? without any inputs like wood logs ect....

its a great system...IMO
 
my loop uses methanol as well....

the loop is 6ft underground..and is 3000ft long
 
Am I reading this correctly that the closed loop geothermal systems use refridgerant?

..........and if that is the case, isn't there a possibilty that the kind of refridgerant your system uses could possibly be outlawed by the gov't at some future date?

I did some digging around, but didn't find too many details.

R-22 and many other refridgerants that we know will be on the decline in 2010. r-22 won't be outlawed, but no new systems will have them. you will see R-22 prices climb like that of R-12.....
 
Four pages of posts and there still is no consensus on how many amps one of these systems draw...

My friend wants to put one of these systems in his next home and I am curious as to how much this setup will draw
 
I'll admit that I am no expert, (despite sleeping at a Holiday Inn Express last night :)) ) so I called my friend with the old system (he said he has had it since spring 1999). He relates that there is no ammeter on his system but his electric bills speak to the issue...they are under $100/month and his house is ALL ELECTRIC. He indicates that when there is a cold snap....-30 for more than a few days his emergency heat will cut in automatically (thats an electric coil like a a standard electric furnace) and he will notice the strong smell when the coil gets hot. However he can also turn that off and live with the house being a bit cooler in cold Wx...I recommended a wood stove :).
So I think the big amp draw you are concerned with is the result of the back-up electric coming on NOT the heat exchanger running. (but as I said at the beginning of the post thats just conjecture and the opinion of a guy that has used one for 8 years).
 
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R-22 and many other refridgerants that we know will be on the decline in 2010. r-22 won't be outlawed, but no new systems will have them. you will see R-22 prices climb like that of R-12.....

That's the answer I pretty much expected.
 
I am up near Barrie,

I have a next energy unit 27 tranquility series...

yes..the huge amp requirements are for the 20,000 watt backup electric coil...however the coil never goes on.... unless its really friggen cold out...or you try to turn up the temp to quick....
 
yes..the huge amp requirements are for the 20,000 watt backup electric coil...however the coil never goes on.... unless its really friggen cold out...or you try to turn up the temp to quick....

Wouldn't they put some kind of "energy efficient switch" on the thermostat to avoid the 20 k heating element from kicking in?

That would seem to be pretty expensive if that kicks in very often. Or much at all.
 
Wind Turbine Power with Geothermal

I have had my geothermal unit up and running 2 years now...ITS AWESOME!!!! ......................

plus....what other heating system can you eventually hook up a wind turbine too and be 100% off the grid? without any inputs like wood logs ect....

its a great system...IMO

AdamH

I am really interested in finding out more information on using a wind turbine to power a geothermal. I currently am researching wind options to get off grid and we have a Waterfurnace (which is great). Our area is prime for wind power too. Please give me any information you have. Thanks!
 
You must want to get off the grid quite badly, because depending on who you talk to, you are looking at in excess of 20 k for a windmill that can handle your needs.

Nearly half of which is making a tall enough tower. The rule of thumb is, the bottom of the windmill blade needs to be 50 feet above any obstacle within 500 feet of your windmill location.

So, if your tree canopy is 75 feet (not that uncommon around WI - MI area) add the length of the windmill blade (say 10 feet) and the tower needs to be 85 feet.

Good luck.
 
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