GIANT poison oak + poison oak question.

[M.D. Vaden]

While in the redwood forest today, I photographed the trunk of a poison oak plant - tree really.

Biggest I've ever seen - lowest visible foliage was about 150' up, maybe higher. It vanished out of view into the redwood.

The trunk was about 4" DBH. Must be a hundred years old, although I'd suspect much more.

Attached image of it's lower trunk.

Here's my question too, for you climbers...

What do you do about pruning or removing trees that have poison oak vines in them?

Some weeks back, I put together this page on poison oak http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
and was still amazed how how long-lasting the irritant in it is.

Can trees with the vines be removed?

 

[treeseer]

Can trees with the vines be removed?

Not sure what you are asking, Mario.umpkin2:

PI does not bother me much any more. If the stalk is <1", I just grab it and pull it out of the ground. No pores in your palms; if you're careful you can grab it.

I remember climbing a riverbirch dull of it in december; vine was leafless and I was careless so I did not ID. It went systemic and i was laid up for days. But that was a long time ago.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

So you are a saying that if you just grab the vines with gloves, you are okay?

I'm in an area with a lot more poison oak than the Portland area had, so I'm curious about the options.

I may even need to subcontract or refer this kind of work, and wondered if the costs are escalated.

Apparently, a fraction of people / climbers are immune. Maybe they could make a bonus in this category.

 

[okietreedude1]

Summer of 05 I had to cut out a bunch of PI and haul off. I went to a safety place and got a disposable coverall. I cant remember the actual name of the thing. I was very hot but it protected me well. I also had on rubber chemical gloves, a dust mask and rubber boots. Everything got thrown away in the end but the boots that got washed.

 

[sawinredneck]

Cut a much larger trunk than that, sorry, no pics Thankfully I am not allergic to that, everything else, but not that, have a buddy I coned into cutting wood with me, he is allergic and he broke out. Needed a cortozone shot when it was all said and one. Did some reading on here, I belive, there was a thread not long ago, learned about Technu, took my buddy back, got the rash, apllied Tehnu, no more worries!! I was impressed and sold!! Bailes carries it, worth a look if you will be in it a lot.
Andy

 

[Diesel JD]

PI is probably the single biggest reason I'm not in the arboriculture industry. I got a couple really bad cases of it in high school and first couple of years of college. I don't want to do that again! I suck at ID of it too, which is perhaps teh biggest problem. Hopefully I'm better at ID and a little wiser than I was then.

 

[smokechase II]

poison oak removal

LA County Parks and others used to remove these tree vines by pulling them out with anything handy. Like a pick-up.
Then to get rid of it they'd run it through a chipper.
Sweet Mary Mother of God.

Picture a co-worker of mine being a conscience objector during the Vietnam era and that was where the judge sent them. There are those that argued that this was an atrocity, although not bad as Kent State.

Said that their clothes would be so badly stained black that nothing could clean them. (Native Americans used Poison Oak as a dye).

A couple tricks not mentioned so far that might also help.

1) Deal with it off-season in some areas, when the pitch isn't flowing.
2) Kill it by cutting the main stem, let it dry and deal with it next year.

I realize that many property owners want it done now. But for some this might work and it will at least reduce the quantity of exposure.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

PI is probably the single biggest reason I'm not in the arboriculture industry. I got a couple really bad cases of it in high school and first couple of years of college. I don't want to do that again! I suck at ID of it too, which is perhaps teh biggest problem. Hopefully I'm better at ID and a little wiser than I was then.

It seems that the tricky ID part is in the winter when leaves are off. It's almost like you have to have been raised in the country to know what the stems look like bare. I can't explain the look, but I recognize it in the dormant season.

Apparently, the chemical remains active in the dead stems and dead leaves for years.

Can you imagine if it remained active on human tissue for years :jawdrop:

 

[treeseer]

Here the stems on poison ivy are very hairy so leafless ID is not hard.

The parks people here value it as a native ornamental and don't want it cut in their greenways.

Mario I was not talking about wearing gloves (tho that is a good idea). I just grab it and pull it barehanded. nothing macho about it; no pores in your palms, so you can't get it there. Anyone ever get poison oak rash on your palms?

I have clients who claim they are fatally allergic. this said with a heavy tinge of hysteria. I think anxiety aggravates the response--the more you fear it, the more reason you have to fear it.

 

[beowulf343]

Apparently, a fraction of people / climbers are immune. Maybe they could make a bonus in this category.

Ha, Ha. I think this is one of the best ideas I've heard on this site.
Fortunately, I have no problems with either poison oak or poison ivy. I've climbed trees so thick with it that you couldn't even see the trunk and I was actually spiking the ivy instead of the tree on my way up. So this means that everything my company gets that is covered in ivy, it becomes my job. In fact, several times other local companies have hired me just to deal with ivy trees. I'll have to bring up the bonus idea to my boss monday.

 

[hobby climber]

Had a bad case of PI a few years back. Never had a problem with it ever before and told the doctor the same. Doctor said that it will stay in your body for years and never leave unless its treated with medication. Once you are exposed to enough of it over time, it will break out all over your body even in areas that were not exposed!

A guy I met once, who was a native Indian, said that if you burn poison ivy & poison oak together, its smoke will cause temporary blindness along with other irritations! He tells me his ancestors did this hundreds of years ago against there enemies. The first use of chemical warfare ever to be used. Thought that was kinda interesting. HC

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

treeseer, you can get poison ivy rash on parts of your body that lack pores. I have had it on my palms numerous times, though it manivests itself as single pustules and not a rash. You get it in these areas when it goes systemic in your body, not from touch.
If you burn it and breathe the smoke you can get it in your mouth, nose, esophagus and lungs.
some are more allergic than others.

 

[treeseer]

Thanks Mike for confirming that you cannot get it on your palms from contact there. I think PI/PO hysteria is part of the recent fantasy that the world can and somehow should be risk-free, and SAFE. Humans' immune systems are weaker when they get little contact with natural microorganisms, and irritants ike PI/PO.

 

[DeanBrown3D]

PI: I cut through the base one year and then removed it the next. It was dry, but I wore gloves and just pulled off strips as I descended, dropping them into a pile. I was wearing gloves and long sleeves and jeans, no problem at all, the PI was growing all the way up an oak to around 50 feet and was 3" thick at the stem.

Take care of the rope afterward, it must have touched the PI at some point, and when I flaked it into the bag afterwards I think it rubbed on my neck and I got a red patch there, but no big deal.

HTH

Dean

 

[Bob Wright]

WOW, I am digging my self just looking at the pics. I saw my neighbor rip a small 12" PO vine from the base of my tree, throw the vine in the street and wipe his hands on his pants, "I don't get it he says". A few days later his wife is putting cream on her foot bottom, guess what, PI while playing footsie at the dinner table, so watch what you do with your old disposible clothes afterwards, it may save someone else some trouble...Bob

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Ha, Ha. I think this is one of the best ideas I've heard on this site.
Fortunately, I have no problems with either poison oak or poison ivy. I've climbed trees so thick with it that you couldn't even see the trunk and I was actually spiking the ivy instead of the tree on my way up. So this means that everything my company gets that is covered in ivy, it becomes my job. In fact, several times other local companies have hired me just to deal with ivy trees. I'll have to bring up the bonus idea to my boss monday.

How about having doctors CERTIFIY climbers who are immune?

In the page I linked to at first, I added that poison oak accounts for about 1% of workman's comp claims in California. Along with poison ivy, poison oak has been the cause for up to 10% of labor down-time in the forest service.

Maybe insurance companies would see a value in that kind of certificate.

 

[beowulf343]

How about having doctors CERTIFIY climbers who are immune?

In the page I linked to at first, I added that poison oak accounts for about 1% of workman's comp claims in California. Along with poison ivy, poison oak has been the cause for up to 10% of labor down-time in the forest service.

Maybe insurance companies would see a value in that kind of certificate.

Well let's take it one step further. Why can't doctors take someone who is immune to poison ivy or oak and synthesize an antidote from their blood, dna, etc. (oh, wait, how many doctors read this site?)

 

[SRT-Tech]

could you not just use steam on the PI / PO plant? Up here the Rail companys use compressed steam to clear the tracks of weeds. They slowly roll down the track and the next day all the weeds are dead, yellow and drooping, thne in a few days they are dry and crumble to nothing.

and for clearing this stuff, the specail suits are called TYVECK, you can get them in bulk at painters supply stores.

 

[okietreedude1]

specail suits are called TYVECK.

Thats right. Thanks.

 

[smokechase II]

poison oak immunity

Treeseer:
A strong immune system isn't what gives individuals the ability to avoid getting urisol rashes. It is an intelligent one. Those who do not react to the ivy, oak or sumac plants do so simply because their body doesn't react to the urisol.
Unfortunately, those that do have a reaction do so because their immune systems react strongly.

beowulf343:
"Why can't doctors take someone who is immune to poison ivy or oak and synthesize an antidote from their blood, dna, etc? "
Doctors are way beyond us. Back in the 1950's a leading research physician, (the same guy who did the retin A - wrinkle remover studies), did the definitive study on urisol exposure/reactions. He concluded that we simply don't know how the immune system works on problems of this nature. His best guess was that if a large population got enough exposure to an irritant like poison oak, that eventually all but 5% would develop a reaction. He had no idea why. Why not all nor why those others would be spared.
In short, you've got to understand not just the problem, but the solution in medicine and we can't synthesize an antidote when we don't know what it is. We are not there yet unless we think big and go cloning.

A fairly significant point is that all should avoid urisol exposure if reasonably possible. I have seen so many that swore they didn't get it eventually develop a reaction.