Green Doug Fir cones dropping by the thousands

[ArtB]

Any ideas or experience with the following?

I have over 30 >15" DBH D Fir trees on my 3 acre 'city' property, and a few hundred smaller D Fir , hemlock and maple and a few 4 ft DBH cottonwood. Am now surronded by developments. The big cottonwoods are > 300 ft from the fir dropping the cones.

One of the D Fir, about 20" DBH, started dropping green cones yesterday, and there are close to 1000 (thousand) cones on the ground now. The other D Fir have only dropped a few mature cones.

We have had a week of cool weather (50F in the morning) which is possibly a trigger, but have never in 45 years living here seen this many green cones drop.

Nearly all the Fir are loaded with cones this year, but this is the only one dropping green cones, ane they drop only between about 6 AM and 7 AM. Thought it was the squirrels yesterday, but literally watched them dropping this morning.

This particular fir is near the property line, where the cable company cut thru some of the west side roots about 20 years ago when the cable company put in the cable for the first neighborhood housing development. Cannot imagine that root damage 20 years ago has anything to do with it. There is also a sewer line 15 ft from this tree that was also put in about 35 years ago, that was just activated last year - the city did do a camera scan of the sewer so doubt that there is a sewer leak, but a possibility that the tree is 'super fertilized' ?

posted this same thread in the homeowner section also.

 

[slowp]

I don't know, but it looks to be a good cone year here too. Morning squirrels and chippymunks from hell? Climate change? Zombies?
Madhatte will know.

 

[madhatte]

It's OK for a tree to drop those cones -- even though they look green, the seeds inside are mature. Those are the cones you want to collect for planting. Unlike the pines, which have special cones adapted to fire (which open separately from mature cones due to temperature), the DF's have the habit of dropping green cones which will dry and open on the ground. I'm pretty sure this is a strategy to hide a few seeds from the critters. All's more-or-less well. A few things I would be curious to know are: if this is the only tree dropping green cones, is it stressed? Are the other trees heavy with cones going to hold on to them until they mature and drop the seeds free next year? I'll make the guess that at least a few of the other cone-bearing trees will also drop cones this season. All of them will likely hold at least a third of their cones through winter. Keep an eye on the heaviest-loaded trees -- if they are indeed stressed, this cone load could be a prelude to dying next year. Often a stressed tree will put its last bit of energy into reproduction before giving up the ghost. Stresses that can kill a tree quickly include drought, disease, insects, sun-scald, and nutrient deficiency. Often two or more of these factors will work together to kill an otherwise-healthy tree. If your trees flush out next spring on time, they're gonna be OK.

 

[ArtB]

thanks for the reply,

None of the trees are stressed to my knowledge, have not run the dozer or car on dirt within 50 feet of the particular tree, although it is only 20 ft to a paved street (which has been paved since 1977).

I'll see if the other trees drop any green cones this year, just had never seen this extent in August before.

In late september, it sometimes sounds like hail as there are so many mature cones falling.

The squirrels here seem to prefer the bigleaf maple seeds to the fir cones, although they do eat the cone seeds also.. Squirrels here seem to much prefer the stale bread DW regularly puts out for them over all else <G>

There are a number of other fir within 100 ft that are as loaded with cones, but are not dropping them (yet?)

 

[madhatte]

There are a number of other fir within 100 ft that are as loaded with cones, but are not dropping them (yet?)

Imagine it as a bell-curve; this tree is one end of the spectrum, and the others will follow. Eventually, one way or another, all cones will make it to the ground.

 

[ArtB]

Interestingly, it rained this AM and no cones fell, so maybe it was a whole platoon of squirrels and they were staying out of the rain -- had scanned the tree yesterday while cones falling and did not spot any squirrels up ther, but the top about 120 ft or more away. If squirrels, wonder why they like that tree, they have nests in other trees also.

 

[Evelyn Sherr]

August 14 2014 - Our Douglas fir has been dropping green cones by the hundreds every day in August. We live in Corvallis, Oregon and have one large Douglas Fir tree in our yard. This is the first time in 18 years that this tree has dropped so many green cones. Before, it only dropped mature cones, and not nearly so many.

The green cones drop in a barrage in the morning for a couple of hours after sunrise. They are sticky with sap, too.

This Doug Fir is loaded with green cones in the top 1/3 of the tree. The tree doesn't appear to be stressed. None of the other Doug firs in the neighborhood have such a load of green cones that are being dropped.

Is it usual for a Doug Fir to be so loaded with cones, and drop so many green ones, after almost 2 decades of not doing so?

 

[slowp]

Did rodents who cut the cones move into your neighborhood? Those little beasties are busy cutting their winter food supply right now. They do an impressive job.

 

[Evelyn Sherr]

Thanks for the thought but no, we don't see any rodents in the tree or gathering cones int he yard.

The green cone drop happens for 1-2 hours just after dawn each day, during which time there is a noisy barrage of hundreds of green cones on our deck and patio under the tree.

For critters to be responsible, there would have to be an army of rodents who are only active in the early morning!

 

[madhatte]

Douglas-firs don't have a seed crop every year. Normally a given tree will throw cones every 5-7 years. Some years are especially heavy, which can cause the limbs to move more and thus drop more cones earlier. I don't have any suggestion as to why they would drop only in the morning except to suggest that you may be seeing a weather-related phenomenon. Do you see an inversion lifting around that time or anything else repeatable?

 

[ArtB]

Saw this thread back active so went out and looked at the tree that was dropping last year - no green cones dropping this year, and there are more squirrels and chipmunk this year than ever before (the feral cats apparently got 'et' by coyotes or trapped by the neighborhood animal rights activist). Also have a pileated woodpecker living near this year.

We had a record rain here for August last night and nothing fell (except LOTS of fir buds) following a week of near record (90's) temperatures. None of the other firs have dropped any green cones this year or last and have about 200 - 2 hundred, not a typo - fir trees near the house from seedlings up to 160 ft. Last year was the only year in 40 years here I saw ANY fir drop green cones at any time of year like the one tree did last year. Or, maybe I just never noticed before.

I suspect it is what madhatte says, some type of long term cycle that interacts with the 17 month D Fir cone cycle, maybe also linked to the 18.6 year moon cycle <G> I'd never noticed the 18.6 year moon cycle till we visited Stonehenge once upon a time. I have no idea why Evelyn's cones only drop in the morning (as mine did last year) except to suspect temperature change. BTW, the cones that dropped last year were on all sides, the west side of that tree gets evening sun but the east is in the shade of larger firs.

PS: if Evelyn has any maple tree, the squirrels much prefer the maple 'helicopters' over fir cones at this time of year.

 

[El Quachito]

Like said before, it is a cycle. I would have to reason that other factors may bring on a good drop as well like maybe drought or other stress. But maybe I am all wet.

 

[ArtB]

It was getting dark last night when I went out and looked at the tree, so took another look this AM.
The particular tree that dropped lots of green cones last year has very few cones this year, and none are dropping. "Few' meaning almost none, esp compared to some nearby D Fir that are loaded.
That the tree that dropped green cones last year is nearly devoid of cones this year is consistent with the 17 month D Fir cone cycle.
I think the particular tree that was dropping is about 40 years old (think it is one I planted along the property line back when). It is in fine shape, no brown anything anywhere.

I think Al Gore flew over the area 3 years ago, maybe that had something to do with it?

A gardener I know thinks that maybe the pile of old cedar fencing a neighbor stacked near the tree 4 years ago (with my permission) had something to do with it, but could give no reason other than slight soil chemistry change.

I did another look around the yard (3.5 acres of fir with some alder) and there are NO trees dropping green cones this year, and had never seen the like before as the event last year.

To help answer Evelyn's concern for her tree, probably no worries about the health of your tree. Would be interesting to hear from Evelyn as to any compost pile or other ground cover near her tree.

When I researched this last year, one of the opinions was that a drought in the previous years would produce stress; I threw that out as BS as no other trees were dropping. I end up thinking it was Al Gore having flown over and scaring the tree ..... or aliens <G>

 

[bigbadbob]

Was out for a walk yesterday, I thought I was being shot at,, a bunch of squirrels were dropping fir cones from 75ft onto a tin roof, sounded like semi auto gunfire!!!
Took a bit to figure out what was going on.
BBB

 

[Evelyn Sherr]

I have noticed a couple of other very tall Douglas Firs in the immediate neighborhood that are covered with cones, but these trees don't seem to be dropping the green cones like the tree in our yard is doing. Our fir has not produced a lot of cones until this year. The Willamette Valley experienced an especially cold winter with a couple of snow events, so maybe that triggered the huge cone production in some Doug Firs this summer.

There doesn't seem to be any relation between the morning cone drop and weather patterns. The cones have been dropping just after dawn for the past 2 weeks, during both hot spells and cooler, cloudy weather fronts.

 

[slowp]

Was out for a walk yesterday, I thought I was being shot at,, a bunch of squirrels were dropping fir cones from 75ft onto a tin roof, sounded like semi auto gunfire!!!
Took a bit to figure out what was going on.
BBB

They got my attention when I saw they were cutting and dropping big silver or noble fir cones. Those would hurt!

 

[imagineero]

I've never seen a D fir, we get some of the species you guys have planted as exotics but D firs just don't seem to get planted or at least I've never seen one. We have our own native pines some of which are a bit crazy. The bunya bunya tree grows well over 100' and the cones can be as much as 35lbs, though typically they're closer to 15. I've seen some near/over houses but mainly up north. A cone that size form that height is going through your roof no question. The seed from the cones is harvested commercially and is delicious pan fried with a bit of olive oil and garlic. I always get the willies climbing them, keep thinking a cone is gonna shake loose. Hard hat isn't going to do you much good.

 

[ArtB]

Thanks for posting the bunya photos, never knew they had that large of cone.

DW planted a monkey puzzle tree in the yard about 30 years ago, looks similar. Looked it up and same genus as the bunya, but ours has not had any cones yet (which wiki says they do not until 40 YO). The genus is considered a 'prehistoric' type tree, maybe around with the dinos?

 

[imagineero]

I've seen a few of those monkey puzzle trees, what an awful tree to climb! The leaves on them are as sharp and hard as thin guitar plectrums, they can cut you open or scratch you up pretty good. We have a few other trees in the same genus which are pretty common here, norfolk pine, hoop pine and bunya bunya area all araucaria spp. The bunya has by far the biggest heaviest cone, I've seen quite a few bigger than the one pictured. They're bigger than a football and tend to be right up around the tip of the crown. They all grow to be well over 100' and up to 6-7' dbh with not a lot of taper. Sticky white sap that makes a real mess of you, climbing up and limbing out then by the time you're coming back down blocking out the sap has gone everywhere and it's sticking all over your flip line, getting stuck in your arm hair, all over your hands. The needles go everywhere when the branches hit the ground, the amount of cleanup is depressing. The needles are heavy too, you can't just rake them up.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Did you post about this elsewhere, RE morning cone drop, but described by like hundreds?

Forgot the name of the OP in the one I read last night.

LOL ... wondering if I will find another this week where they are dropping by the 10s of 1000s