Grinding square-ground chain

[twoclones]

Yesterday I got an 088, with 42" bar and square grind chains, in a trade. Now I have to learn about square grinding.

Am I wrong to assume that I cannot grind this chain using my Oregon 511ax and a square profile wheel?

What about between grindings? Simply file with a flat file having a blind edge?

 

[mdavlee]

The 511 type won't grind square without a lot of modifications. They make double bevel files for square ground chain. Being in the pnw you should be able to pick up a grinder pretty cheap if you're patient and search craigslist.

 

[parrisw]

Yesterday I got an 088, with 42" bar and square grind chains, in a trade. Now I have to learn about square grinding.

Am I wrong to assume that I cannot grind this chain using my Oregon 511ax and a square profile wheel?

What about between grindings? Simply file with a flat file having a blind edge?

Yes you can grind with you're Oregon grinder, but the chain will no longer be square ground.

 

[watsonr]

Square chain is easy enough to find and normally a little cheaper because far fewer people use it. I haven't had any problem finding it in 3/8 or .404 sizes. Like said before, you can grind square with a round grinder, just won't be square any more. Lots of guys file square by hand because of the cost associated with a square grinder, but everybody that has a square grinder doesn't like to run round anymore because it is just plain faster in the cut.. not faster to sharpen.

There are two angles on the stone and I have never heard of one able to grind square with a round grinder without heavy modification, most give up trying to make there own and just buy a square one. There was a thread a few months ago with a person trying to do it and he just bought a square grinder.

Square is not a popular choice because of the difficulty of hand filing and cost of a grinder. If I were a production cutter or have to sharpen much more than 10 chains a day probably wouldn't do square either! I cut firewood for myself and a few friends, cut a few big tree's when I get the call from my tree service buddies or the firewood guys I fix saws for because they don't have a bar long enough. Might sharpen 10 a week, still sharpen round on the .325 stuff and round for most of the guys who come by, they hand file round mostly. If I did square for them I'd be doing square all the time... have to have some sort of an edge when we race!!

 

[twoclones]

Last night I went to a friends house so he could see the new saw and fix my square chains on his Silvey grinder. They're beautifully sharp now but the process sure is more complicated than round grinding!

 

[Philbert]

Last night I went to a friends house so he could see the new saw and fix my square chains on his Silvey grinder. They're beautifully sharp now but the process sure is more complicated than round grinding!

Sounds like someone you want to keep as a good friend, especially if you decide that you like the way your square ground chains cut!

Maybe he can teach you how to use the Silvey, or provide some instruction on hand filing, to see if that is a route that works for you. Work out a deal for him to sharpen them, to or let you use his grinder, while you keep your eyes out for a used one. Maybe buy him some additional wheels or something.

Otherwise, you can decide to grind them round, or swap him some of your chains to get others that you prefer.

Philbert

 

[myragtop]

Picked up a Stihl USG grinder recently. Have not even set it up yet.
I think I'll be watching this thread for a while and try to learn something.

opcorn:

 

[blsnelling]

If you go square, be prepared to spend $1,000 on the grinder, quite a bit of fiddling to get it setup, longer to grind the chain, and less time between sharpenings. I won't mess with it on a work saw. A round ground chain should cut very well. Buy an Oregon grinder, put an ABN or CBN wheel on it, and you'll love it. The guy sharpening your chains simply isn't doing a good job. Also, remember that a razor sharp chain won't cut properly if the rakers aren't maintained.

 

[J.W Younger]

Picked up a Stihl USG grinder recently. Have not even set it up yet.
I think I'll be watching this thread for a while and try to learn something.

opcorn:

Did you also get the attachment for square? I hear those things make hens teeth look common.

 

[myragtop]

Did you also get the attachment for square? I hear those things make hens teeth look common.

I bought a used one, put it in a box to bring it home and haven't even looked at it since. I don't think there were any extra attachments.
The plan was to set it up in the spring, but that might get pushed up a bit.

 

[testlight]

Square or chiesel grinding makes for a better cutting chain because of that great corner that makes a point. The grinders cost a lot more, and the chain does not hold it edge as well.
Round grinding is easy and the grinders are cheap.:msp_thumbsup:
Unless you are cutting dirty wood, like roots all the time don't buy round chain.
Round filing square chain is the best bang for the buck and very simple. Up here in Alaska all professionals and most people that take it seriously square grind.

Buy square chain, and a round chain grinder. Keep a couple extra loops, when the first gets dull, throw on a sharp one. Grind chain at night after work, that's how its done. If you hate grinders (which you won't) then grind your chain and touch them up with a file to make them just the way you want them.

If you are really serious get a square grinder, but you have to do the cost benefit comparision.

 

[Trx250r180]

i noticed also after i sharpen my square with my silvey it throws bigger chips than the stock grind does when you run a new chain ,most guys that cut for a living will point out a new chain isnt sharp till you sharpen it yourself ,just stay out of the dirt ,i usually have a few chains with me just in case get into some dirty wood ,i set my rakers about 030 also ,the bar almost self feeds in the cut

 

[mdavlee]

A swing arm can still be had for under $800 from silvey or simington. They are much easier to set up and use than the razor sharp II. The square grinders can be bought for cheap if you're patient and search around. I bought one for $210 to my door and a second for around $360. If you want to run square all the time then search for a used square grinder. It's so much smoother to me than round and faster so what's not to like.

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

If you go square, be prepared to spend $1,000 on the grinder, quite a bit of fiddling to get it setup, longer to grind the chain, and less time between sharpenings. I won't mess with it on a work saw. A round ground chain should cut very well. Buy an Oregon grinder, put an ABN or CBN wheel on it, and you'll love it. The guy sharpening your chains simply isn't doing a good job. Also, remember that a razor sharp chain won't cut properly if the rakers aren't maintained.

Don't listen to a word this "CULL" says!......he can't even fall a tree in the right direction, my would he know anything about sharpening a chain..........Hahahahahahahaha!

 

[Eecho]

problem ive seen is that square chain just doesn't hold up to insane hardwoods like Osage orange and pin oaks of the east coast. The squares definitely faster and smoother in the cut just because the angles are straight to make the optimum chip and flow , the round chain is designed to take the debris off the tooth and is why its more geared towards hardwoods it directs it off the top cutter plate faster thus making it more choppy in the cut.You want to get harder stock off the chain tooth much quicker in hardwoods as they dull chain faster then pines and cedars .It is pretty much the whole reason the east coast uses round ground as the dominant cutting is hardwood that and its cheaper to sharpen when dulling much faster .

 

[Rounder]

A swing arm can still be had for under $800 from silvey or simington. They are much easier to set up and use than the razor sharp II. The square grinders can be bought for cheap if you're patient and search around. I bought one for $210 to my door and a second for around $360. If you want to run square all the time then search for a used square grinder. It's so much smoother to me than round and faster so what's not to like.

What Mike said. A lot easier on the hands and body in general. I'm not out to work hard. The saw should be doing the work, not me. Well worth the minimal extra maintance to run square.

 

[mdavlee]

You can change the angle on the square to a little steeper and it will hold up in hardwoods. Atleast it did for me in red/white/pin oak, locust, frozen chestnut, and hickory. You can adjust the angles to the wood you're cutting. It's not much work to change the angle a little bit with the dressers. That way you're not messing with the setup anywhere else.

 

[watsonr]

And actually by changing the angles a little, it helps with the self feeding. Mine is right around 4* and just eats it up. They are out there cheaper than new right now, just have to look. A little extra time at the grinder is usually rewarded with about a 20% reduction time in cutting. Chips are longer for sure, here's a pic of round and square chips. Both chains were just done on a grinder. The round is 60/30/0 and the square is 30/3, however this chain didn't self feed very well. I've increased the angle to 4* and it seems to eat much better.

Some are 3" long!

 

[blsnelling]

Don't listen to a word this "CULL" says!......he can't even fall a tree in the right direction, my would he know anything about sharpening a chain..........Hahahahahahahaha!

Takes a CULL to know a CULL.... ya ole grouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, you're used to seeing one in the mirror every morning:hmm3grin2orange::jester:

 

[forestryworks]

A swing arm can still be had for under $800 from silvey or simington. They are much easier to set up and use than the razor sharp II. The square grinders can be bought for cheap if you're patient and search around. I bought one for $210 to my door and a second for around $360. If you want to run square all the time then search for a used square grinder. It's so much smoother to me than round and faster so what's not to like.

I tried out a swing arm in Idaho. Doesn't take too long to get it down.

Square is definitely better, faster, and smoother cutting than round.

On the hunt for a swing arm.