Have problem, need feedback

[JohnVander]

Today me and my partner went to work, (we are money partners, he has a dump, I have a chipper, we have our own saws and climbing gear), towards the end of the day we had one last tree to take down, he climbed it, set a rope in it, came down, made his notch, back cut, then ran around to help me pull it over. The tree came down, (left of where I thought it would land) when I went over to check out his hinge (the tree was very hard to pull for such a small sucker), I noticed that his new 460 looked busted up, and it was, the tree landed on it. I felt sick when I saw it because it was a brand new, that said, the only time I touched it was to gas it when he was in a tree (he was the last to touch it). I felt problems coming when he asked me "didn't you see the saw when you where pulling the tree?" I said "no, did you, I was looking at the top",(I was 40' from the saw, he was 15' at best) then he comes back later and says "what are WE going to do about this", (ie, am I going to share the cost of fixing or replacing the saw) I tell him that I am not going to do anything, and that I'm sorry he landed a tree on his saw. He then tells me that I should share in the cost because the saw makes both of us money, I tell him that I don't agree, he leaves (letting me have the pleasure of cleaning up all the sodden duff in a driving rain), says he's done with me, and that all I care about is money. Any thoughts?

Thanks
John

 

[Nickrosis]

Sorry to hear that! Great to have someone passing the buck, but it's probably best that he's gone now instead of blaming you for his dropping a tree on his truck or something worse. If I dropped a tree on my saw while working with someone, I would put my head in my hands and ask myself how I was so stupid to do that.

Asking you if you could help pay for it is one thing, what he did is going off the deep end.

 

[skwerl]

Partnerships are great as long as everybody is making money. But it usually doesn't take much to create issues. One person's screwup becomes everybody's screwup. My best advice is to watch your words and don't say anything you will regret next month.

I'm a subcontract climber (and now bucket truck operator) and my best client is a man with whom I've had several disagreements. But I respect him and have been careful to never allow myself to burn that bridge in the heat of an argument. He always ends up calling me back a month later and we go back to making lots of money again.

Let him fix his saw and wait for him to have a change of heart. If he's a man of integrity then he might just call you back up in a couple weeks and admit it. Otherwise you haven't lost anything.

 

[clearance]

Very similar thing happened to me, my work partner and I were doing a landclearing job on the weekend, fall it, buck it, leave it. Allmost all the trees were undercut, backcut, a few of the smaller ones had to be pulled over. He was where I couldn't see him (uneven, steep lots) we agreed he would pull the tree and I would cut, I put in the undercut and heard him yell so I went for the backcut. What he was yelling was actually "wait I gotta tie a poormans (bowline on the bight)... but I cut the backcut and the tree went over kind of backwards sideways and stove the mint 372xp that I had just bought off an old guy days earlier, into the ground. Oh,well, I picked it up and it started but it was hurt. The good saw shop guys fixed it up with some used parts, top, choke, aircleaner, etc., I taped the trigger safety thing down, and pounded out the muffler, cost like $70, saw ain't mint no more. I told my buddy forget it ---- happens. Skwerl and Treeco are right, after a few days he should calm down, if I liked the guy even though it is really his fault I would just fork over half, I mean even if it is thrashed, still ha ha Stihl good for parts. A hundred years from now who will care?

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

John, where are you in WA?

I'm in a similar situation with a buddy of mine. ALL of our gear is mine, and I make especially sure to watch all of my stuff. I run the saws, so they're usually me to take care of, but he looks out for them too. Things get busted, it happens. Myself, I never, ever, ever leave a saw anywhere where it might get smashed. The same way I never park my truck or leave anything important within the feasable radius of a tree or a top. I see it as common sense. Whoever left the saw there should bear the brunt of the responsibility, but if he's accurate about it making BOTH of you money, you might think about ponying up and buying a new bar, or throwing him some cash at least...in order to get back together and start making money again. Yes, it's his saw, he likely set it there, and he put the tree on it. But don't let pride get in the way of a profitable situation. Don't bow to his whims, but if his saw is in fact making you money, I'd rather pay a bit and make some more money later, than to hold my pride and not make any at all.

Just my thoughts. Life ain't fair, and it sucks.

Jeff

 

[Tree Frog]

Things get broken, you cannot change that. Just bill it to the job, split up the parts between the two of you and carry on making money. I feel that it is easier replace equipment than relationships that are profitible.

After all it is just a saw. Who gives a :censored:

 

[mikecross23]

After all it is just a saw. Who gives a :censored:

Just a saw! The man said it was a 460. Round these parts thats an eight to nine hundred dollar saw. I ran my ms-460 over with the skid steer, that hurt.

Don't pay the man. Sounds like a jack a@@ for getting so worked up over HIS mistake. He should cool off after a while and he will need you for something and then things will go back to normal eventually.

On the flip side. . . if there is any chance you might have just not seen the saw in the danger zone because you just didn't take time to look, well that's lazy so pay half and get back to making money.

-Mike-

 

[Tree Wombat]

Yes it is his mistake but i think both of you should share in the cost of repair as the saw makes you both money. I think you should talk to him and say "mate it's your fault the saw is broken for putting it a stupid place to start with, however it is part of our partnerships equipment and we both benefit from its usage so i will chip in for the repairs this time but if it happens again from a silly mistake it wont be fair for me to pay again." and the same goes if you damage something of yours, it is both of your responsibility to keep the partnership making money not just who's to blame.
Get over it and keep on chopping

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

The tree came down, (left of where I thought it would land)

John, what if "left of where I thought it would land" had been "On top of the client's new Mercedes"?

And then the next thing you hear is:

says "what are WE going to do about this?"

I'd say you got off easy. You learned what this guy's character is with no money out of your pocket.

Partnerships are risky business.

 

[Jumper]

Old Army saying: "One man, one kit" ie you are the only one responsible for losing/breaking/whatever what is yours. To attempt to pile the blame on a partner's actions which were not malicious is a crappy thing to do. Good riddance, does not sound like the kind of partner I would want to be associated with. He may come around, and apologize after the piss off factor wears off.

 

[hobby climber]

Write it off on next years taxes! Problem solved now get a new saw and get back to making some money.

 

[rebelman]

tough call. I've worked partnerships, but when bidding, I found myself figuring not only what I needed, but what he would need too. I sold most of the jobs, he owned the chipper, etc. I think everything works better if there is one person responsible for the job. The person responsible for the job makes all decisions including safety. My partner liked to listen to Howard Stern real loud. We're both in trees, all is well until Howard's partner Robin spoke, her shrill voice sounded like our little ground man shouting up at me. Each time I would stop a tricky climbing prodedure, pull my ear muffs back, slowly ease my ear plugs out, and look around to see what the problem was. After a couple times being ignored, I screamed to turn the effin radio off! A little off the topic. I think all the answers so far are pretty good. You'll find the right mix.

 

[treeminator]

i have a partnership worked out where we come in at seperate times since we both have different equiptment. i sell and stumpgrind, he drops, chips, and dumps. this way nothing ever gets broken by either of us.

but if i were the original poster, i'd pony up and help buy a new saw. it's strictly business. that little bit of money is going to make you more in the long run. i'd kind of let him know it in a subtle way.

it's like an employee with good skills that comes to work late all the time. although it frustrates the hell out of you, he still helps make you money and you need to pay your bills in the end.

 

[BigJohn]

That's a good story. I say he notched it, back cut it. He should have made sure his drop zone was clear. If you saw it and didn't say anything then it is on you. Your not his babysitter. Tell him to fix his own saw and maybe he will learn to check his drop zone before he goes cutting. That could have been a person that he "didn't see" because he was looking up.

 

[RandyS]

I work with my nephew, he's 21. I'm 48. He has his own clients for mowing and I have mine. We split the extra work.
I pay for half of his mistakes, because we're partners on those jobs. It's the right thing to do. The saw would've been at the shop getting the parts so we could use it tomorrow.
I'm assuming if I messed up he'd pay for half too!
We all have our comfort level when it comes to money.
Maybe next time you'll have a better understanding of how to handle a situation like this before it happens.

 

[stoneland]

Randy i would pay half no worries Big guy.

If he is a real asset to the business and you have gotten along so far. Just split the cost but if some thing of yours breaks make sure he helps you.
you need to come to an understanding between the two of ya.

If we need new blades or a new saw Randy and I used the extra work $ to buy them. Thats just how we have it figured out it works for us.

 

[MRengo]

My MS 460

Thank you all for your comments. I am the first to admit that i can be a bit of a jack @@@ at times. This situation is a good example. I flew off the handle and for that i apologized first thing this morning after i cooled off.

Without confusing the issue by bringing too much history into the argument I will say this; I set my saw on the stump of the tree i had just taken down. After that the customer came out and asked John to take down small tree near by. He asked me to climb up and set a rope to pull the tree. I saddled up and set the rope. When I came down John was holding the rope indicating the direction he wanted the tree to go. I made my cut and ran around to help pull. As soon as I started to pull I noticed that the saw was still sitting on the stump near the path of the falling tree but it was too late and the tree fell on the saw.

Now I say both of us should have been more careful and observant of the drop zone. John had the whole time that i was climbing to determine the best direction for the tree to go and that the area was clear. That is what I assumed he had done.

We both :censored: up and I think we should bill the cost of the mistake to the job and move on and learn from the experience. Sometimes things get broken thats the cost of doing business. If he gets half of the profits doesn't he share in the cost?

 

[Dadatwins]

I think both of you screwed up not watching the drop zone and paying attention to what was going on the whole time the saw was running. First mistake was not having enough pre-tension on the line to make sure the cutter would not have to drop the saw and 100 yard dash to help the rope man. Thank goodness it was only a saw and not a curious homeowner or a kid. If you are going to run a two man operation and have a tree that you are not sure you can pull solo you need to set some pulley blocks with a 2-1 or 3-1 and pre- tension the pull. This allows the cutter to stay near the cut with the saw in hand, and the puller to do his job solo. Split the repair cost of the saw, buy some pulley blocks and slings, and chalk it up to a lucky mistake that could have been worse.

 

[hobby climber]

MRengo, First off, welcome to AS.com you'll (like the rest of us), will learn much by hanging around here. Good topics , good humor, & good people! We all, pardon the expression, have are ups & down. This could be argued with both being right and both being wrong but arguing in my opinion is just a waist of good energy thats better spent on something productive!!! Maybe you & John could sit down over a beer and work it out. At the very least, agree on what you guys will do if something like this happens again. Maybe insurance for your equipment or better yet, both of you could pool some of your profits into a fund and use that money for this kinda thing. Whatever you guys decide, remember this... you are business partners and your in this business to make money so don't make it personal! Shet Happens and thats life! Sure it may cost a few bucks but you can't make money without spending some first. So replace it & get back to work. Write the other one off on your taxes if you can and move forward in your partnership with a better understanding for next time. Good luck to you guys & be safe. HC

 

[JohnVander]

Tree felling is not the easiest thing to do, often times small factors such as hinge width, and notch depth can steer a tree in an unexpected direction. Thanks for all the imput guys. Matt and I are good friends and we will work it out.

Thanks
John

P.S. Jeff I live in Bothell. Do you log, or are you in tree service?