Have problem, need feedback

[fishhuntcutwood]

Wow, that's quite a hinge for that tree. Tell your buddy if he'd continued on his back cut a bit more, he'd of avoided all that fiber pull.

I'm actually a CG helicopter mechanic and crewmember as a profession. But I do work with a gypo (not THE Gypo) logger friend of mine in timber. That lead me into tree work, in which I'm still a newb.

Jeff

 

[teamtree]

If you are a partner you share in all the costs

If you are a partner then you have to suck it up and take the hit along with the other guy. That is what partners do. If you were partners, it was not his saw. The partnership should have paid for the saw. At any rate, pay for the saw and take the hit on the job.

Sounds like you did not plan the partnership very well and set yourself up for failure.

I have had partners come and go and my take on it is that the business pays for all expenses and then you divide up the profits. If I give a guy a saw and ask him to go make money for me, I can't ask him to pay for any damages. I may fire him and move on but that is the cost of being a partner or owner.

 

[tophopper]

Regardless of the partenership issue....



I agree with big John,

one should be responsible to be sure their own drop zone is clear,

much the same as a driver is responsible for his vehicle, regardless of who may have loaded it

 

[John464]

most partnerships fail within the first three years. I forget the actual percentage, but it is very high. With that said, before entering into a partnership it is best to meet with a lawyer and have everything in writing prior to start-up so you can review back to your partnership agreement and know exactly how to react. Secondly, you need more help, the guy making the back cut should not have to pull the rope. This is how things get broken and people get hurt. Generally speaking, a partnership involves splitting the expenses evenly unless cited otherwise on the partnership agreement. Things will happen and things will break. A business that can overcome set-backs, in this case a very minor set back, will prosper. Best of luck.

 

[teamtree]

Take the high road

IMO if I were in the guys shoes who was on the pulling end I would take the high road and share the cost of the saw. Yes, the guy cutting the tree screwed up by making a bad cut and placing the saw in the drop zone. But hey they were partners at the point the damaged occured. You can't say it is not my problem after the fact. I think it is cowardly.

Regardless of the bad planning on the partnership, if they were sharing the profits of the job they should share the expenses. I think by refusing to pay half he is being a chicken ???? and not standing up to his end of the deal. You should choose your partners carefully but once you do you got to stand by it. If I had a partner and he made a bad decision and cut a large limb that landed on a deck, can I ask him to cover that cost? I wish that were the case but it just doesn't work that way.

It is obvious he would be better off working for someone else as he does not have the ability to comprehend the responsibility of a business ownership.

 

[teamtree]

it is not about who is to blame...it is a responsibility thing

Yes, someone is to blame and it sounds like there is some debate on that issue (who really placed the saw in the drop zone...there are conflicting viewpoints from both parties).

This a cost of business. What if it wasn't a saw? What if it was a really nice bird bath or deck or window? Who would cover the cost then? Did the guy not pull hard enough or was it a bad face cut and/or back cut?

Regardless of the partenership issue....



I agree with big John,

one should be responsible to be sure their own drop zone is clear,

much the same as a driver is responsible for his vehicle, regardless of who may have loaded it

 

[nitwit dolt]

nitwit dolt

Key word is assumed. Most of the job is assumption, "I thought it was going to go more left.". Take care of the stuff you can control and the other stuff falls into line.

 

[hobby climber]

Hey NitWit Dolt...welcome to AS.com HC

 

[9th year rookie]

I'm relativley new to the game (as the name implies). I learn alot from the more experienced guys that I hire to work for me. One day, I kept putting a brand new H372 in the wrong place. In front of the truck, under a large brushed-out pine about to be chunked down, etc. An experienced employee kept moving it to a safer place and finally stopped and told me to use some common sense and learn how to take care of my equipment. Lesson learned. I also tie my own rope. I sometimes work with other companies - all close friends. We always know who "owns" the job, collects and distributes pay, and ultimately is responsible for performance and liability.

 

[jmack]

replace

Today me and my partner went to work, (we are money partners, he has a dump, I have a chipper, we have our own saws and climbing gear), towards the end of the day we had one last tree to take down, he climbed it, set a rope in it, came down, made his notch, back cut, then ran around to help me pull it over. The tree came down, (left of where I thought it would land) when I went over to check out his hinge (the tree was very hard to pull for such a small sucker), I noticed that his new 460 looked busted up, and it was, the tree landed on it. I felt sick when I saw it because it was a brand new, that said, the only time I touched it was to gas it when he was in a tree (he was the last to touch it). I felt problems coming when he asked me "didn't you see the saw when you where pulling the tree?" I said "no, did you, I was looking at the top",(I was 40' from the saw, he was 15' at best) then he comes back later and says "what are WE going to do about this", (ie, am I going to share the cost of fixing or replacing the saw) I tell him that I am not going to do anything, and that I'm sorry he landed a tree on his saw. He then tells me that I should share in the cost because the saw makes both of us money, I tell him that I don't agree, he leaves (letting me have the pleasure of cleaning up all the sodden duff in a driving rain), says he's done with me, and that all I care about is money. Any thoughts?

Thanks
John

yes replace the saw with a 200.00 poulan 295 each pays 100 its not a 046 but at least its 46cc it will get you going, busted stuff is a fact of tree work keep moving forward and price the new 046 into the next couple o jobs dada twins recomends equipment you should also get.... how about a fiddle block if its just da two of you your gonna some MA mechanical advantage above all put it behind you who cares whos to blame you guys get paid fer tree work not having a meeting on the blame game

 

[Trignog]

Your the one with the chipper, dump trucks are a dime a dozen. Let him load his truck with brush. Sometime you might get away with shooting the chips on someone's land. A couple good paying jobs and you can buy yourself something that can haul and dump chips.

 

[tree Guise]

Reading that you had to climb a tree to set a line in it to fell it gives me some rough idea of the skill level of whats going on there. However; the guy who set the saw down where it could be smashed and then ran over to help pull on the rope can't blame anyone else for his poor decision on the placement of the saw,or his poor performance in the quality of his cutting,and or plan for felling the tree. there are many,many people in this business that you really don't want to be associated with. As in any other area of life,people that won't take responsibility for their own actions or mistakes are good people to distance yourself from. Confucius say: A wise man can learn from a fool, but a fool won't learn from a wise man. I say rethink the value of your partnership before something happens you really can't afford to be a part of.

 

[Mitchell]

resolution

Today me and my partner went to work, (we are money partners, he has a dump, I have a chipper, we have our own saws and climbing gear), towards the end of the day we had one last tree to take down, he climbed it, set a rope in it, came down, made his notch, back cut, then ran around to help me pull it over. The tree came down, (left of where I thought it would land) when I went over to check out his hinge (the tree was very hard to pull for such a small sucker), I noticed that his new 460 looked busted up, and it was, the tree landed on it. I felt sick when I saw it because it was a brand new, that said, the only time I touched it was to gas it when he was in a tree (he was the last to touch it). I felt problems coming when he asked me "didn't you see the saw when you where pulling the tree?" I said "no, did you, I was looking at the top",(I was 40' from the saw, he was 15' at best) then he comes back later and says "what are WE going to do about this", (ie, am I going to share the cost of fixing or replacing the saw) I tell him that I am not going to do anything, and that I'm sorry he landed a tree on his saw. He then tells me that I should share in the cost because the saw makes both of us money, I tell him that I don't agree, he leaves (letting me have the pleasure of cleaning up all the sodden duff in a driving rain), says he's done with me, and that all I care about is money. Any thoughts?

Thanks
John

You two kiss and made up yet?

Seriously though, I am interested in partnerships; anyone have pro con feedback. I have the basics, insured, isa arborist, climbing/rigging gear, half dozen saws [stihl and dolmar all new] and BB90 chipper but crappy f350 wheel drive non dump chip truck. Buddy has basic climbing gear and saws, same level climbing skill, uninsured, might buy chip truck. Neither of us can devote unlimited time to tree service as we both have fire jobs. We both are easy going and personable. Neither of of really need each other but I wonder if we would be greater then the sum of our parts . feedback would be appreciated.

 

[teamtree]

Partnerships are tough in the tree business. Too many scenarios for things to go wrong.

If the partnership is going to work it needs to be set up as a business and have the business own the assets (saws, trucks, etc.). There needs to be a written agreement on how to deal with income and liabilities. You must also have a clear understanding of dealing with financial matters.

I have had a couple of guys as "partners" and it usually did not work out for one reason or another.

IMO if you have someone you want to work with, pay them a good salary and keep the business to yourself. Or vice versa.

As far as the saw, it is a partnership asset and the cost to replace should come out of the income from the job. Tough to accept but if you are his partner then you should own up to it and accept the loss. If not, then you should not be in a partnership as you do not have the right mentality for it.

 

[lxt]

I think the KEY here is Partnership, is it a legal partnership or a verbal one?......by your claim he is your partner! If he cut the tree with the saw that got damaged then he is not a very smart person(should of known better), Partners are usually friends at this level....so is it worth a friendship? things happen in this biz!! If you are at a level such as this over a saw what will happen when it is the homeowners property that is damaged?

to me partner means together, good, bad or indifferent sometimes you loose together, sometimes you win together!! Its about working together & that means sharing the outcome.....like it or not, he`s your partner.

this is why I dont have a partner......too many headaches!!

goodluck.

LXT..........

 

[OLD CHIPMONK]

Partnerships are just OK. If you want to continue , replace or repair the saw. Do so out of earnings & divide the balance as profit. A lesson learned the hard way. If you continue a working relationship , start by legally doing so. Hire a bookkeeper, pay your taxes & then you can see if it's viable. If you can't , simply part ways. In my expierience, partnerships are usually too one-sided !

 

[glenn31792]

This guy will be nothing but trouble. He cut the tree, he knew where it was going to
fall and yet he set his NEW saw down in the danger area. Bad things happen to
peoples equipment when they don’t take care of it.
Lets say over a few years the business grows and each of your are running a crew out
of a truck. One night he comes back and says one of the new saws was stolen off of
the truck – are you going to believe him?
If you part company now or later I still see him badmouthing your company to customers.

 

[JohnVander]

We are no longer partners, and our friendship was hugely strained by being in business together. If you are going to have a partner in the tree business, you have to have very similar values and philosophies. The person in question has gone on to to make good money in trees but in my opinion is too careless with others safety, property, etc, one those people who could crush a fence and blame it on the home owner, he'd rather fix a roof than lower a branch. It almost came to blows several times. All that said I still love the guy, and will say he taught me most of what I know about sales.

 

[teamtree]

Here are a couple of questions in relationship to this matter....

In a partnership, if one partner bids a $1600 job at $1000 how is the money split...$500/$500 or $800/$200? Does the partner who bid it too low take the hit or does the partnership take the hit?

If an employee damaged a saw would you deduct it from his check? Does it matter if it was an accident or the guy is sloppy.

What if it was client property?

 

[teamtree]

We are no longer partners, and our friendship was hugely strained by being in business together. If you are going to have a partner in the tree business, you have to have very similar values and philosophies. The person in question has gone on to to make good money in trees but in my opinion is too careless with others safety, property, etc, one those people who could crush a fence and blame it on the home owner, he'd rather fix a roof than lower a branch. It almost came to blows several times. All that said I still love the guy, and will say he taught me most of what I know about sales.

Did you know he was careless before you started working together?

Out of curiosity how was the partnership formed? Was it an "idea" that turned out bad or did you actually form a partnership? Sounds like you just started working together giving the "his" and "mine" tone in your initial response.