HELP husqvarna 272xp hard to pull

[Alanmurphy6912]

please anyone with any advice will be greatly appreciated. So I'm a not so new to chainsaw builder and I've rebuilt and gone thru probably 40 or so saws and sorta know my way around service manual and so on. So I have this 272xp I am rebuilding for a customer and the main issue was the pto end of the crank was worn down and not oiling properly due to the clutch drum and plastic gear going crooked once the chain and bar was tightened it wouldn't mesh with the oiler gear. So I ordered a kit to replace the entire saw basically with exception to a few minor things like the handle and covers and so forth. I installed the new crank into his original cases with new bearings s and seals and centered the crank to the best of my ability. Then put the top end on and the flywheel and notice it was sorta still to turn over. Squish is at about .0023 and everything got oiled during assembly. I noticed on the pto side that the grease/assembly lube was blowing out of the crank bearing like it was pressurized when I pulled it over. (I only noticed this because I didn't have the oiler cover with the seal in it on yet) so I tore it back down thinking maybe I didn't have the crank just right and or maybe I had gotten some moto seal into the impulse hole on the bottom of the cylinder or something and not the case. I have since put it back together and taken it apart in a whole separate set of cases that came with this chinese repair kit and used all the chinese parts thinking maybe it didn't like his oem cases or cylinder etc. And to no avail I still cannot get it to act right and pull over decent enough to even start it. I've read about the recoil rope and all that and have since then changed the rope and still cannot figure it out. The only new thing I've noticed is that the flywheel before the nut is tight I can turn the flywheel on the crank like an eighth of an inch or 2 or 3 degrees left or right before the key thats built into the flywheel hits the slot in the crank and stops either advancing or retarding the timing. I can't seem to find any info on this if anyway any ideas im all ears! Thanks in advance for your help and ypur time. I'm new to the forum and posting in general. 1997 husqvarna 272xp

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

What assembly oil did you use?
How does it "pull over" with the spark plug removed?

Chinese saw kit- anything can be expected and suspected.

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

I used klotz 2 stroke oil for most everything and some thin lubriplate stuff I've used forever. I'll attach a picture. And with the plug put it seems to spin over fine. Just still can sorta feel it get harder at tsc and bdc almost like there is still a plug in it.

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

It says assembly grease but it's super soft like white lithium almost. More like whipped creme vs grease. The assembly grease I used in the bearings.

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

What assembly oil did you use?
How does it "pull over" with the spark plug removed?

Chinese saw kit- anything can be expected and suspected.

And yes I know, i normally advise against chinese anything as I've learned many lessons with that stuff. But a crank for a 272xp was almost non existent. There was 1 decent used one on ebay and I just bought it today. Used was not what he wanted I'm sure of that but I'm out of ideas and answers. Now I have to out of my own pocket buy a good set of bearings and new seals to be sure everything is done right. I feel bad and almost incompetent on this job. He is a new customer and I dont wanna let him down however I've been transparent with him but I've never ever has such an issue with ANY saw. And on the chinese thing I have built a few neo tech aka farmer tech competitor stihl 660s and a 372xp without any major issues. I mean the 372 i built from farmer tech doesnt seem to run the best but i think it's either carb or coil related. Not getting 12,000 rpm. And the carb low jet turned out like 2 plus turns still starving for fuel when cold.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

So the new bearings- were they out of the elcheapo kit?
I would be suspecting crud in the bearings somewhere- either case bearings or big end conrod bearing.
I would be pulling apart and checking nothing bearing wise is side loaded and flushing the bearings out with premixed fuel real well- including taking out the almost grease you packed them with.
If they were the kit bearings- I would pull them, toss them and replace them with SKF or similar 6202 C3's.

 

[Czed]

Do you have the chain brake cover on the saw?
I fixed a few for customers that had the brake band misaligned
Just pop the clutch cover off and try it if it's installed.

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

Do you have the chain brake cover on the saw?
I fixed a few for customers that had the brake band misaligned
Just pop the clutch cover off and try it if it's installed.

Nope no chain brake on the saw still have it apart and yes this is the second set of bearings and seals from the cheap kit. It did this exact same thing in his original case s when I installed new bearings into them.

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

No I have literally torn it all down and in half 3 times n I w and I have cleaned the bearings s in the original case and now the Chinese case halves came with the bearings already installed so I used oil 9n these and put it together. I'm stumped

 

[Czed]

Nope no chain brake on the saw still have it apart and yes this is the second set of bearings and seals from the cheap kit. It did this exact same thing in his original case s when I installed new bearings into them.

Crank bind or starter binding is the only thing in can think of.
I have about 20 2 series never had that happen
Just the chain brake band issue.

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

Crank bind or starter binding is the only thing in can think of.
I have about 20 2 series never had that happen
Just the chain brake band issue.

Thanks for your reply I think I've figure it out.. I split the case again and felt the crank spin at each part removal i.e the oiler, then after the cylinder was off etc. And noticed it was still tough. The bearings where clean amd free still once I pressd the crank out of them. I then took the original oem crank and pulled it into the bearings and realized it was super free and smooth like it shoulda been. Come to find out and see it looks like there is a small shoulder on the crank that would about but up to the crank bearings on both sides and on the new after market "China" crank it looks as if this shoulder is wider and larger than that of the original. I will post pics tomorrow when I get in the shop.of what I'm seeing. Seems like the only way to use the new crank is to use a thicker case halve gasket or just an oem crank which is ultimately what I ended up ordering on ebay. But this is my only decent guess on the issue. When the crank came in I used a caliper and checked all the journals and everything was fine but I must have missed this shoulder.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I kind of remember many years back that there was an issue with non OEM bearings not having a bevel or radius machined on the inner race of the bearing so that it would seat in a little further on the crank. Some bearings only had the relief machined on one side and during assembly the assembler needed to pay attention to what side was facing the center of the crank. I will see if if Robin has any info on this, @Cantdog

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

I kind of remember many years back that there was an issue with non OEM bearings not having a bevel or radius machined on the inner race of the bearing so that it would seat in a little further on the crank. Some bearings only had the relief machined on one side and during assembly the assembler needed to pay attention to what side was facing the center of the crank. I will see if if Robin has any info on this, @Cantdog

Oh ok thanks for the tip,I've never heard of this but again I'm not a master saw builder. I'm 29 years old farm born and raised and have ran saws all my life and fixed all my own equipment and just in the last 5 or 6 years I've been getting into rebuilding engines and 2 strokes mainly but I have rebuilt quite a few stihls and only in the last year or 2 I started messing with husqvarna which I've noticed seems to be a little more intricate than the stihl s as far as rebuilding and having weird issues like the tank vents on my 372 and so on. So this crank bearing thing stumped me big time but being a cheaper ebay kit (not from farmertech or hutzl) that my customer insisted on using I wasnt sure how the quality would be and just assumed it was there parts fitment and that's why I ended up using all there cheap parts together and it still wouldn't work. So as I tore it apart last night i saw that little ledge on the crank was larger wider than that of the oem crank. And I'll look again but it looked as if the bearings s where the same on both sides. The kit came with a set of bearings s and seals in a small box and a complete set of cases that already had the bearings s pressed in it and 1 seal. So I'd messed around thinking m bearing depth was wrong and so on and to no avail. I'll post as clear of pictures as I can soon of what I found.

 

[fishdrivel]

I used klotz 2 stroke oil for most everything and some thin lubriplate stuff I've used forever. I'll attach a picture. And with the plug put it seems to spin over fine. Just still can sorta feel it get harder at tsc and bdc almost like there is still a plug in it.

Brings back memories. I used to race motocross professionally and I used Klotz 2 stroke oil.

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

I kind of remember many years back that there was an issue with non OEM bearings not having a bevel or radius machined on the inner race of the bearing so that it would seat in a little further on the crank. Some bearings only had the relief machined on one side and during assembly the assembler needed to pay attention to what side was facing the center of the crank. I will see if if Robin has any info on this, @Cantdog

 

[cscltd]

I don’t think it is this, but have you checked the starter pulley? They warp or are split in the inside behind rope. Causes a lot of those hard to pull over problems that are overlooked

 

[Cantdog]

I used klotz 2 stroke oil for most everything and some thin lubriplate stuff I've used forever. I'll attach a picture. And with the plug put it seems to spin over fine. Just still can sorta feel it get harder at tsc and bdc almost like there is still a plug in it.

I read this entire post to #16 several times and am still not sure what the problem is exactly. In the quote above you say it spins over fine with the sparkplug out.......If you can still feel a bit of resistance near tdc I'd say that would be just the magnets in the flywheel. If you put the plug back in it doesn't spin so good anymore. My guess then would be to much assembly lube or the wrong lube on the piston/cyl. I only ever use two stroke oil and then just some on my finger to coat the cyl wall and piston. By the time there is enough fuel present to start the engine there will also be enough lube to run it. So don't over do it with the lube like we would on a four stroke. The next thing I would ask is are you trying to pull it over without a bar on it? These saws need a bar on them to balance properly when starting and this is more so on a fresh build. I built my 61/268XP, ported, squish set at 0.020" and tried to pull it over without the bar on and about flipped myself upside down yanking on it. Put the 20" bar on it and it pulled over fine.
As far as non OEM parts I can't really offer much of an opinion as this stuff came be soooo hit or miss, especially if it comes from the far east.

 

[sand sock]

can you take a sharpy and mark the bearing. to see if the inner /outer and balls are moving? my old 034 bearing froze and spun out the housing.

maybe the ignition is to far advanced?

 

[Automender]

It looks like the crankshaft did not have a radius cut into the shaft. On a TS420 cutoff saw I rebuilt the OEM crank had a nice radius cut into it which matched the bearing radius. Did the original bearings have a radius? Looks like maybe they left the material there but didn't program the CNC to radius the material. Key is original bearing if it has a radius.

 

[Alanmurphy6912]

I read this entire post to #16 several times and am still not sure what the problem is exactly. In the quote above you say it spins over fine with the sparkplug out.......If you can still feel a bit of resistance near tdc I'd say that would be just the magnets in the flywheel. If you put the plug back in it doesn't spin so good anymore. My guess then would be to much assembly lube or the wrong lube on the piston/cyl. I only ever use two stroke oil and then just some on my finger to coat the cyl wall and piston. By the time there is enough fuel present to start the engine there will also be enough lube to run it. So don't over do it with the lube like we would on a four stroke. The next thing I would ask is are you trying to pull it over without a bar on it? These saws need a bar on them to balance properly when starting and this is more so on a fresh build. I built my 61/268XP, ported, squish set at 0.020" and tried to pull it over without the bar on and about flipped myself upside down yanking on it. Put the 20" bar on it and it pulled over fine.
As far as non OEM parts I can't really offer much of an opinion as this stuff came be soooo hit or miss, especially if it comes from the far east.

Yes sorry I've taken it apart and put back together so many times with different parts and trying to figure it out that it's hard to even explain it properly. I do the same with the 2cycle oil on my finger and so on. Even with the plug out it turns sorta hard and I tore it down 2 nights ago and piece by piece as they came off I would turn the crank to see if it got better and it wasnt until I unbolted the case halves and started to split it apart that it became free. After I removed the chinese crank I re installed the old oem crank and it spins free as a bird. I think it's just the chinese crank that was the issue. And or maybe the case gasket being too thick or thin? I'm not really sure but I have all oem parts ordered and on the way. Crank expected to be delivered tomorrow so I will try again and report back