Help Pruning this young maple

[whitenack]

Hey guys,

I planted this red sunset a couple years ago, and let him rest. He seems to be doing good, so I want to start shaping him up so that he will grow properly.

However, I need a little guidance as to where to cut.

In the first two pictures below you will see two branches that rub. (pictures taken from opposite sides of the tree) My first thought was to make a thining cut on the higher branch because it was smaller. However, there is already a larger limb on the other side of the stem, and thought that it wasn't good to have two large limbs coming off the stem at the same height. Am I right? Plus, the angle off the stem looks better on the smaller limb. So, which do I prune?

While we are looking at these two pictures, look at the limb on the other side of the stem. See that it has a limb coming off it at a narrow angle. I know that you would want to prune that off if it was coming off the stem, but what about coming off a limb?

The next picture shows a limb that is competing with the central leader. It is not yet taller than the leader, but it is close. Do I make a heading cut half way down, or a thining cut back to where it forks off the main limb, or a thining cut all the way back to the stem?

The next picture shows a limb that definately competes for the central leader, but I wasn't sure how much to prune. It looks like it will be the next level of outward growth, so I don't want to cut it off completely ( or should I?). Do I just cut it half way down, just below the central leader?

The last picture show a ring of 5 branches coming off at the same place on the stem. It looks as thought the trees top was snipped, and these shoots grew off of it.

(See the detailed photos in the next post)

As you can see, the stem is the widest of the 6, with the other 5 being about the same size. 4 of the limbs and the stem seem to be connected to the old stem, while the 5 limb seems to be coming off the new stem. My thoughts are to remove the 4 that are connected to the old stem, even though that will leave an odd looking mound. Your thoughts?

In general, should there only be 1 limb coming off the stem at one place? In other words, everywhere that there is 2 limbs coming off at the same place, one should be pruned? What about more than one limb coming off a limb at the same place? What about limbs that are coming off limbs at narrow angles? Seems like this (and maybe all) red sunset maple produce at least two limbs at every place.

Thanks for all your time and expertise.

 

[whitenack]

close up photos

 

[rebelman]

The tree strikes me as fairly thin already. I woudn't prune much, and not at this time of year. Winter or summer would be better. Yes, the interfering branch growing horizontally and the downward growing one toward the bottom, cut back to the collar on the main leader. And the middle shoot in the clump, with others next year, to the collars. The tree seems to have good genetics, u shaped crotches, visible collars, and good color. Keep the pruning at a minimum, mulch the root zone. Just some quick thoughts, hope it helps.

 

[treeseer]

look and learn from this site and you will have the answers to most of your questions.

http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/pruning/

 

[whitenack]

look and learn from this site and you will have the answers to most of your questions.

http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/pruning/

Yeah, I read that pruning section after I read the planting section you sent me yesterday about the ginkgo. It does a good job of explaining the limb's relationship to the leader, but not much about the limb's relationship to other limbs.


Rebelman, you suggest leaving the larger, lower branch, and prune the smaller, higher branch? This would have two major branches coming off the stem at the same height on the stem. Is that recommended?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

In the first two pictures below you will see two branches that rub. (pictures taken from opposite sides of the tree) My first thought was to make a thining cut on the higher branch because it was smaller. However, there is already a larger limb on the other side of the stem, and thought that it wasn't good to have two large limbs coming off the stem at the same height. Am I right? Plus, the angle off the stem looks better on the smaller limb. So, which do I prune?

Do you think that those limbs will be permanent, or at some point will you want to raise the tree up for view or clearance?

While we are looking at these two pictures, look at the limb on the other side of the stem. See that it has a limb coming off it at a narrow angle. I know that you would want to prune that off if it was coming off the stem, but what about coming off a limb?

If you study these limbs, you will notice there always seems to be on dominant limb at each fork. The smaller ones tend to stay small and are stunted by the larger side. If you come back and look at this same branch in years to come, the smaller one will still be almost the same size, while the larger one will have grown huge.
If you cut off the smaller one, not much will happen. The tree will needlessly lose some leaves and the center of the tree will be a bit less full. However, if you were to cut off the bigger one, stand back, that smaller limb will shoot out so fast it might poke you in the eye. It will tend to grow at a much faster rate than other limbs on the tree until it has replaced the bigger half you cut off.

The next picture shows a limb that is competing with the central leader. It is not yet taller than the leader, but it is close. Do I make a heading cut half way down, or a thining cut back to where it forks off the main limb, or a thining cut all the way back to the stem?

I'll make a mark on your picture, where I would cut, and attach it.

The next picture shows a limb that definately competes for the central leader, but I wasn't sure how much to prune. It looks like it will be the next level of outward growth, so I don't want to cut it off completely ( or should I?). Do I just cut it half way down, just below the central leader?

I'd let that small thing go a couple more years and see what develops.

The last picture show a ring of 5 branches coming off at the same place on the stem. It looks as thought the trees top was snipped, and these shoots grew off of it.

(See the detailed photos in the next post)

As you can see, the stem is the widest of the 6, with the other 5 being about the same size. 4 of the limbs and the stem seem to be connected to the old stem, while the 5 limb seems to be coming off the new stem. My thoughts are to remove the 4 that are connected to the old stem, even though that will leave an odd looking mound. Your thoughts?

Why don't you start with one? Perhaps the one growing towards the center of the tree is the best choice. Then next year, you can see how it reacts and take more if needed.

In general, should there only be 1 limb coming off the stem at one place? In other words, everywhere that there is 2 limbs coming off at the same place, one should be pruned? What about more than one limb coming off a limb at the same place? What about limbs that are coming off limbs at narrow angles? Seems like this (and maybe all) red sunset maple produce at least two limbs at every place.

This is the problem with sites like the one Guy posted, it doesn't take into account trees like this Norway Maple that are genetically predisposed to multi-stemmed growth patterns.
Ideally, you want the tree to develop into a nice single stemmed tree. It seems like you have a good grasp on the idea of co-dominance training, so my only comment would be to try to trim in small doses. If you're not sure, just take less.

 

[rebelman]

Rebelman, you suggest leaving the larger, lower branch, and prune the smaller, higher branch? This would have two major branches coming off the stem at the same height on the stem. Is that recommended?
Yesterday 08:56 PM

I don't think there is a problem with two major branches coming off the stem at the same height. The leader that approaches codominance rubs on two horizontals, if it was removed, the horizontals would still need to be removed, as they are growing downward and will be a nuisance in the future. I'm new to this giving advice using pictures, and I didn't look closely enough at all the pictures the first time. I'm saving treeseers link to study myself, and Mike Maas as usual gave good advice. Some pruning decisions are influenced by the pruning program. Reducing a leader to a stub as Mike seems to suggest in his photo, I think should only be done if the tree is to be properly maintained in the future. This is rarely guaranteed.

 

[treeseer]

This is the problem with sites like the one Guy posted, it doesn't take into account trees like this Norway Maple that are genetically predisposed to multi-stemmed growth patterns.

Mike, the red maples down here are similarly predisposed, so training them to codoms can make a fairly stable tree. Still I think that training them to dominant central leaders can make a more stable tree.

If you're not sure, just take less.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[whitenack]

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

Do you think that those limbs will be permanent, or at some point will you want to raise the tree up for view or clearance?

I am pretty sure I will keep them. This is my rental property, so I am not concerned about the view. Clearance isn't an issue, because this isn't going to be a high traffic area, (unless the branches grow straight out to the sides for 15-20 feet, then it will be in the street). Aesthetically, I would prefer more of an upright grower, as opposed to the short trunk, round crowned bradford pears and sugar maples that are planted in a lot of peoples' yards. However, this desire for an upright crown would not compel me to drastically prune the tree against its natural growing habit. I'll happily prune for structural integrity (and some aesthetics), but to prune so I can turn a weeping willow into a redwood is beyond my interest level. I am also not interested in climbing up 10-20' into the crown 10-15 years from now to make more cosmetic prunes.

So I am not interested in raising the crown just to raise the crown.

However, if a few easy snips every now and then on small branches can ward off the 'lollipop look', while at the same time not go totally against the normal structure of the tree, I might be interested in doing so.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

In that case, I might do a little reduction work on those lower limbs to subordinate them, otherwise they may tend to grow out, up and at some point be competing for apical dominance.
By snipping at them from time to time, you should be able to keep them to a size that will prevent them from being a problem. I'd rather see you do that, than have you just wack the whole limb off.