Help with new Woodmaster

[JC31]

Hi, this is my first post. Im new to wood burning and just installed my new Woodmaster 4400. This is a great site and you have all been a great help. The OWB has been in use for roughly a week and is great for heating. My problem is with the hot water. I have a Plate exchanger that came with the wood burner 20 or 30 plate? I installed a mixing valve due to young children. One problem is the recirc. line for instant hot water to fixtures will not siphon with the mixing valve I believe because of the check valve. I bypassed the mixing valve and it circulates as normal. The next thing is the exchanger does not produce hot water warm at best. I believed this was due to low water usage but I have run several gallons through the system to heat the tank, and still cant seem to get hot water. Also my wife said that when she took a shower this morning it started out hot and got cooler. The pipe on the outlet of exchanger seems to be getting very hot so this isnt making sense to me. I was thinking of adding a pump for DHW or maybe a side arm exchanger. Has anyone else had this problem or suggest a solution. And has anyone installed a mixing valve with a recirc. line. I would appreciate any input before my wife makes me turn the water heater back on. Hope this all makes sense, see attached picture. Thanks

 

[Sawmill]

Did you bleed the air out of you system.

 

[HUSKYMAN]

That thing is way too complicated for me to figure out from a pic, but the cold water going thru the exchanger and hot water from the boiler must flow in opposite directions, or the exchanger cannot transfer heat fast enough to get the water hot.

Also is your water heater turned off or just turned down like mine. I leave mine on so I dont have to wait and waste a lot of water in the morning waiting for the hot water to get thru the heater.

 

[JC31]

Yes, I bleed the system. There may be something I dont know about it Im not a plumber. Thanks for the reply.

 

[JC31]

That thing is way too complicated for me to figure out from a pic, but the cold water going thru the exchanger and hot water from the boiler must flow in opposite directions, or the exchanger cannot transfer heat fast enough to get the water hot.

Also is your water heater turned off or just turned down like mine. I leave mine on so I dont have to wait and waste a lot of water in the morning waiting for the hot water to get thru the heater.



The water flow is in opposite directions . I have the water heater off and was hoping I would not use any propane. Maybe I was expecting to much.

 

[Sawmill]

I cannot understand what you have from the picture but with a plate exchanger for hot water you should not have to have your water heater turned on. Mine has not been on in 2 years and we get all the hot water that we need. I don't have a mixing valve in mine but I am thinking of putting one in. Sorry I cannot be more help After looking at the picture again, isn't the mixing valve suppose to be in the line coming out of the water heater and the cold water line going in the line across from the plastic knob.

 

[JC31]

I cannot understand what you have from the picture but with a plate exchanger for hot water you should not have to have your water heater turned on. Mine has not been on in 2 years and we get all the hot water that we need. I don't have a mixing valve in mine but I am thinking of putting one in. Sorry I cannot be more help After looking at the picture again, isn't the mixing valve suppose to be in the line coming out of the water heater and the cold water line going in the line across from the plastic knob


Sorry about the confusing pic. The cold water supply is on the far right it runs to the top of the plate exchanger. It then runs back into the right side of the water heater. The left side is the hot supply it runs to the mixing valve that was by passed in the pic. with the open valve in the vertical line. The bottom of the mixing valve is hot supply top is cold which runs back to cold supply for plate exchanger and the middle is mixed supply to fixtures. Hope that makes sense Im confusing myself.

Also to make it more confusing ,the blue into exchanger is in from boiler the red is to HX. I ran short on pex.

 

[Sawmill]

Was there directions with your mixing valve. I don't have one and I have only seen a couple of them hooked up and these were the outlet line from the water heater and the cold water ran in the fitting across from the knob, but they may have been a different brand than you have.

 

[rx7145]

Sounds to me that the mixing valve is mixing the water too cold. Can you turn off the "cold" to the mixing valve and see if that helps?

I looked at you picture and every thing looks good. Not sure why it is not working

P.S. The valve above the black box is off right?

 

[JC31]

Yes I double checked and the mixed is acrosed from the knob. It seemed backwards to me too. Any way its a honeywell I got it online $80 something I think.

 

[JC31]

Sounds to me that the mixing valve is mixing the water too cold. Can you turn off the "cold" to the mixing valve and see if that helps?

I looked at you picture and every thing looks good. Not sure why it is not working

P.S. The valve above the black box is off right?



The valve above the box is off . In the pic. I opened the valve to the right of the mixing valve which should bypass it and still no luck.

 

[coostv]

I cannot understand what you have from the picture but with a plate exchanger for hot water you should not have to have your water heater turned on. Mine has not been on in 2 years and we get all the hot water that we need. I don't have a mixing valve in mine but I am thinking of putting one in. Sorry I cannot be more help After looking at the picture again, isn't the mixing valve suppose to be in the line coming out of the water heater and the cold water line going in the line across from the plastic knob.

+1

From what I can follow in your picture, it does not look right to me.

This is how it should be.

Your cold water supply goes into the exchanger and hot comes out and goes into you water heater tank. Your water heater outlet is where your tempering valve should be installed.

It looks as though you have the tempering valve on the cold side of the tank, where heated water from the exchanger should be entering the tank. If this is the case, there is your problem.

Chris

 

[rx7145]

Sounds to me that the mixing valve is mixing the water too cold. Can you turn off the "cold" to the mixing valve and see if that helps?

I looked at you picture and every thing looks good. Not sure why it is not working

P.S. The valve above the black box is off right?



The valve above the box is off . In the pic. I opened the valve to the right of the mixing valve which should bypass it and still no luck.

This does not make any sense. What is the OWB temp set at? Does the water coming out of the flat plate feel hot? (can you keep your hand on it?)

Turning on the "bypass" valve will not keep the mixing valve from mixing cold water. On my setup I had to turn off the cold water to the mixing valve as it mixed the water too cold. Mabey the same thing is happing here.

 

[JC31]

This does not make any sense. What is the OWB temp set at? Does the water coming out of the flat plate feel hot? (can you keep your hand on it?)
__________________


The boiler is set on 159 off 170 pre set from woodmaster .Havent played with it yet. Yes the pipe is hot and you cant keep your hand on it to long. I have a 50 gallon tank not sure how long it should take to bring it to temp. I also have the recirculating line constantly returning cool water to the tank.Do you think I need a pump.

 

[rx7145]

This does not make any sense. What is the OWB temp set at? Does the water coming out of the flat plate feel hot? (can you keep your hand on it?)
__________________


The boiler is set on 159 off 170 pre set from woodmaster .Havent played with it yet. Yes the pipe is hot and you cant keep your hand on it to long. I have a 50 gallon tank not sure how long it should take to bring it to temp. I also have the recirculating line constantly returning cool water to the tank.Do you think I need a pump.

160 is a little low but I don't see that as the problem. It must be the recirculating pump. I'm guessing that the rec pump does not flow through the heat exchanger? After time I can see this cooling off the tank. If you could plum the rec pump in a way that it cycled the water through the heat exchanger that should work.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Dazed and confused

Another pic with a different angle would be good, can't see where the line from the HX ties in, liiks like the cold inlet to the HWH...neat piping BTW, good job!...I am a plumber by nature, but never hooked up a plate HX before...what are the specs? They should be rated like any HWH, output will be X gpm at X temp. at X temp. rise (incoming water temp. vs. output temp.)
maybe air, maybe wrong adjustment....supply temp from boiler should be higher.

I urge all of you who do not have one to install an anti-scald valve! Not only is it code, it is the safe and proper thing to do. Temps above 120-130 can cause serious burns.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

The plate exchanger in my system works great.....and provides all the hot water we need. The water stays warm for a long time in the water heater and we turn the electric elements off whenever the OWB is working. Even if we are gone for a day or two we have hot water when we return. I also have a side arm installed on mine and never turn it on......as the plate exchanger makes the water so hot that the sidearm isn't even needed.

I am not sure if water heaters have standard locations for the inlet/outlet pipes - but if you took your picture from the front of the water heater your inlet and outlet are on different sides than my water heater. My cold water enters on the left side and exits as hot water on the right side. If you hooked them up wrong your hot water would be coming out of the tank from the bottom - where the cold water is located.

Something is wrong with your system......your plate exchanger should be making lots of hot water and not just warm water.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Like others I am having a hard time following the flows because if partially hidden pipes and connections. There is something that just doesn't look right, looks way to complicated. I am not at home where I can look at mine but some things to check. I am pretty sure that you have the plate exchanger plumbed wrong in that the boiler loop is supposed to be on the side with the orange dot, again going from memory here. The flows should cross as somebody else suggested. Also I have a TACO valve on mine and the way the thing works I get some pretty hot water though mine before the valve kicks in and then it is cooler than I want then stays steady at the set temp. Has been this way since new. The entire sequence is only maybe 10 seconds and the water is never scalding hot nor cold just varies a bit above and below desired temp before "settling in" As the others said I will assure you that when working correctly the plate exchanger will supply all the VERY hot water that will run from a tap. Occasionally the valve will stick but that causes too hot water not too cold. All I have to do to fix it is to run the temp adjustment knob down and back up and it works again, maybe twice a year? I also run a side arm to keep the tank hot when we are not running water so I cannot comment on how long the tank should stay hot. Your boiler loop temps are fine, that is where mine are set.

 

[bowtechmadman]

Wish I could be of assistance. I have a hot water store tank where it's just another zone in my hot water system. Tank works just as a hot water heater except the heat is supplied via hot water circulating through coils w/ the tank from the exchanger. Only issue I've had is the wife can't completely fill her 3 person jacuzzi tub. Tank is only 40 gallons and her tub holds close to 60.
Think I need to investigate this sidearm that I keep hearing about. Is this like on demand hot water?
Thanks

 

[oneoldbanjo]

Wish I could be of assistance. I have a hot water store tank where it's just another zone in my hot water system. Tank works just as a hot water heater except the heat is supplied via hot water circulating through coils w/ the tank from the exchanger. Only issue I've had is the wife can't completely fill her 3 person jacuzzi tub. Tank is only 40 gallons and her tub holds close to 60.
Think I need to investigate this sidearm that I keep hearing about. Is this like on demand hot water?
Thanks

bowtechmadman: The sidearm does the same thing that the internal coils do in your storage tank.....except the coils are located outside the tank and the water flow from the water heater is usually thermosiphon and does not require an additional pump. The sidearm works to keep water inside the hot water heater warm - the plate exchanger is normally attached to the inlet side and preheats the water before it enters the water heater. (Plate exchangers can also be used for boilers, hot tubs, etc.).