How do you guys make people happy by the cord?

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jimbojango

jimbojango

ArboristSite Guru
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
605
Location
Mayfield, Kansas
BSD: go check out wichita craigslist and see how much wood is ONLY being quoted by the cord. :) then go look in western kansas and around oklahoma city and tulsa. its a regional thing. You know wheat being sold by the bushel is actually computed off weight and shrunk right? i'll bet they round some of those figures and screw a farmer or two by a cent! i should turn my co-op in. there is up to 9.9 pounds of scale fraud on EVERY weight ticket too!!! oh.. and go from 1 co-op to the next and your 25 ton load can LEGALLY vary up to 500 pounds :) i'll bet its the same where you live :) go across some scales, then go across some different ones, be loaded and empty on both and see if your net weight is the same.. i'll bet not
 
jimbojango

jimbojango

ArboristSite Guru
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
605
Location
Mayfield, Kansas
Nice rant that ignores legal definitions and that standard measures are required in any legitimate business. If "rick", etc., measures are ever legitimized, we will gladly go along with the program. Until then...

Harry K

firewood isn't a legit business... wood is free... it grows... i wish there was NO wood on my farm.... none... no tree's. The labor and fuel to get rid of said wood is far greater than any profit. If you sell firewood and thats all you do and you make a living out of it then you are charging a hell of a lot for your labor and machines and your price would be so high you'd never turn a profit on a large enough scale to run a business. as a hobby i'd think it'd make decent money. but buy or lease a building, get insured, pay workers comp, taxes, interest, electricity, fuel.. no way are you making anything. besides... my black walnut tree's are worth 500 each! go look on craigslist ;) (yeah, thats a joke guys)

Labor: Legit
Equipment: legit
Standing wood: thats why they pay people to cut them down
Firewood: worthless except for labor and equipment
 
hunter0182

hunter0182

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
77
Location
Hephzibah georgia
wood

So this was beat to death that "ricks aren't acutal measurements" ... Some people have requested a CORD of oak wood from me which is fine, but they want it cut 18-20 inches. I asked a couple old times and they said "if they request it shorter than 24" they are still only getting 2 4x8 stacks" ... I emailed them back and said the cord would be "short" with 20 inch lengths or i would sell them 3 16" stacks (for more dollars, but not that many). I figure with 3 stacks there is 1/3 more work. How do you guys handle these situations? Do i multiply it out, short them the 4" 's or just tell them "you're getting 4' X 16' X 20 inches for XX amount of dollars? Thanks guys!


P.S. Almost ALL wood in this area is sold in rick form so thats why I'm asking

I am in Ga. ,here it is against the law to sell firewood by any other term than a 1/4 to a full cord but who pays attention the firewood cops ,lol normally i give them extra wood to make the short fall up ,i have never had any compaints,all say i give them more than the last guy, i had to pull my ads because it has out grown me by word of mouth, and most dont trust anyone because they have been shorted or feel they have not got their moneys worth ,i have 1/2 cord racks i make up the width in height:chainsawguy:
 
rmotoman

rmotoman

ArboristSite Operative
. AS Supporting Member.
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
454
Location
Sedgwick, KS
I don't understand why you stress out about selling wood. I sell in the Wichita market. I sell by the rick or cord. My wood is cut 16-20 inches. I do explain to people that 3 ricks make a cord unless it is cut to 24 inches then 2 ricks make a cord. I would like to see the law that says 2 ricks make a cord. I believe a cord is 128 cubic feet no matter how long it cut.
 
mike reynolds

mike reynolds

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
25
Location
Joshua Tree, CA
My dump trailer holds 130 cubic feet. I stack it slightly over-full and deliver it. before I hit the dump button I show the customer and ask his approval. I show him he gets more than 2 cubic feet free and this makes him almost always happy. Occasionally I get someone that wants to measure and I offer my tape and calculator. I then open the gate and show him it is stacked and then ask for payment all prior to hitting the dump button. This works well for me and I know I have done it right and ethically.
 
banshee67

banshee67

Poulan Wild Thang
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Apr 1, 2009
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2,884
Location
waynes world
My dump trailer holds 130 cubic feet. I stack it slightly over-full and deliver it. before I hit the dump button I show the customer and ask his approval. I show him he gets more than 2 cubic feet free and this makes him almost always happy. Occasionally I get someone that wants to measure and I offer my tape and calculator. I then open the gate and show him it is stacked and then ask for payment all prior to hitting the dump button. This works well for me and I know I have done it right and ethically.

wow i figured i was the only one that had a customer pull out a tape measure! lol :dizzy:
the guy asked the dimensions of my trailer, i told him, and apparently he thought i was lying.. and went to his garage for his tape measure..
im standing there tellin him its 10ft long.. and hes lookin at it funny like its not..turns out i was right(lol) it was actually about 10'4" long.
 
hunter0182

hunter0182

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
77
Location
Hephzibah georgia
firewood

Come on, guys! You're smarter than this!

A cord is a fixed volume but the height, width and length of the stack are irrelevant. If the sticks don't add up to the "easy to remember but not a fixed width" of 4 feet, simply increase the height and/or length so the H x W x L comes up to 128. Don't get hung up on the stack being 4 feet tall or 8 feet long - adjust these to whatever you need to make up the ONLY value that's in play - the cubic feet required to make a cord. PM me your email addy and I'll make up a printable spreadsheet that will show the required dimensions of various stacks that equal a cord.

ok i cut all my wood 18 inches i stack it in 8 ft racks so how high should i go, i can go to 10 ft racks
 
TwistedHiCap

TwistedHiCap

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Dec 28, 2010
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12
Location
England
I have Oak firewood for sale. I live south of Wichita but travel to Western Kansas weekly. Price is 125 a rick (4' x 8' x stove length you request) delivered to the dodge city area or similar distance(157 miles) whenever I make a trip. I live in -----, KS if you want to google map it. I travel to Liberal, Meade, Buffalo OK, Beaver OK, Garden City, Ulysses, ect. I would consider selling it in cord form also 4' x 4' x 8' if anyone is interested if you want 24" lengths. If you want multiple ricks or cords at a time I can bring a trailer load and try to get several peopel at once. If i go to any of the other towns or distances I may require a small delivery fee to cover fuel unless you buy multiple ricks. THANKS! also feel free to make a reasonable offer on multiples as I would rather bring 2 or 3 or 15 ricks at a time if neccessary :)

Thats the EXACT add except where i edited my little town out :)

So that little town may well be Mayfield lol

I may be wrong but its there next to all your posts lol

:blob2::blob2::blob2::blob2::blob2::blob2:
 
zogger

zogger

Tree Freak
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
16,456
Location
North Georgia
racked up ricks of corded faces....

..in my state, Georgia, it is just slap illegal** to offer to sell anything but a cord, or fraction of a cord, because all the other measurements are complete BS and open to wild interpretation. No "face cords" "ricks" "racks" "loads". A cord, 128 cubic feet, if necessary by size of cut stick, you convert back and forth from inches. CL though is still full of meatheads who try to dodge that.

Frankly, I think even that is crap and they should switch to weight, with a certain moisture content being declared "seasoned" or not. Anything over that still being considered "green", then with the addition of species, consumers would have a more accurate way to determine who has the best deal. The entire transaction is based on selling BTUs, and that is really the only honest way to get a (more) accurate figure.

The reason why I say that is anyone can plainly see an unscrupulous dealer can make a really wide "fluffed up" stack with criss crossed chunks and make it tape measure to look like a cord or half cord, when it is half air space. That's why I think dry seasoned weight, one ton, two tons, etc should be the way to go. Then, the smaller length the stick, it would be up to the seller to determine how much extra to charge because of the extra work involved.

**the only exception I have seen in widespread occurrence are those little bundles of firewood, grab and go size, like wrapped in shrinkwrap at the quickee mart or whatever.

Now branches as you are cutting are hard to measure, too tedious, but when you go to cut the main trunk, barring it being very unusual shaped, You measure both ends circumference, then do your math considering them to be cylinders to get a real honest measure. Find the medium between the two measurements and that will be real darn close to a real volume measurement, if the log is a normal taper. then it won't matter how you stack it, if you keep that load separate from your other loads.

Now you see why this is hard, and why we should switch to dry seasoned weight and species instead.
 
doobie57z

doobie57z

ArboristSite Operative
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May 16, 2010
Messages
291
Location
northern wisconsin
and each cord can be inspected by a "moisture certification inspector" and certified. Then you would take it to a "firewood weight certification specialist" to have it weighed. And get it certified and identified by a forester. Yeah, sure
Where I live a face cord is the face of a 4x8 cord, by any length logs you want. 16" is most common, because 3x16"=4 feet. Its not rocket science, if some body doesn't want it, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT!
 
zogger

zogger

Tree Freak
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Nov 23, 2010
Messages
16,456
Location
North Georgia
corded face ricks

They went to cords only here because so many people were getting ripped off. I agree going to dry seasoned weight introduces some problems, but the compromise is using the "cord", tightly stacked, that can be measured with a tape. That just gets fairer. Different areas of the country have different "standards" apparently, whereas a "cord" is the same everywhere.

Using weight is done for so many other products out there, really, I don't see it as being insurmountable in the modern day. The closest energy analogy we have is coal, it is sold by the ton, or fractions or multiples thereof, not by the "face load".

Say, you go to buy dry dogfood, you want 50 lbs, you don't want to try and figure out if this bag is doable or not for you if it is measured in "face pecks" or some other such nonsense.

Just a for instance...firewood sellers would be tasked with once a year registering and having their scales measured, same as at the slaughterhouse or auction barn, etc when you go to sell your cows. I know I check mine before they go out...so if there is a wild discrepancy beyond what I expect for stress loss, we can have a "discussion" about matters. If they are caught low balling, well, that's fraud and done commercially they could be charged.

Scales won't lie if they are inspected and calibrated, no "interpretation" needed, stacked wood can vary wildly due to air spaces. Or like when the gas station has to have their pumps measured, you want to just guess if you are getting x-amount gallons? That's what you want with wood, just "trust" but no "verify" for the consumer. Or is it better that they are inspected and you know you are more likely than not to actually be getting x-gallons at the pump? You want the gas station to go FU, trust us or GTFO, you don't have to buy it, then you go to the next station qand it is the same, then the next one, ditto? Or is it better to have their dang pumps measured and at least have that assurance and have a single makes-sense unit of measure?

Same deal. It's a business, firewood is an energy selling business, You don't want to guess on your kilowatt hours of electricity or what gets put into the propane tank or whatever, you want a minimum, and you know they get inspected and verified periodically. And you have that gauge on the propane tank to back up what they claim they are pumping in.

You would theoretically have some minimum expenses to proceed with dry wood by the weight instead of volume, just like the climbers here have to get contractors insurance and some competency license most places anyway.

We got rid of "caveat emptor" snake oil pure anarchy selling of products for a reason, human nature tends to de-evolve into the biggest crooks take over and sell crap. I am not for over burdensome government regs, far from it, but some is necessary, consumer warranties are a good thing, as are some standards for quality and measure.

Anyway, I am old fashioned, I believe in "just weights and measures" from the good book. Less than that gets squirrelly and can lead to problems and "ricked and racked up corded faces" is not any sort of real measure that can be universally applied at this time, all sorts of people will have all sorts of ideas what those measurements really mean, whereas a tight packed cord or weight by the ton is, and could be applied anywhere. Rick/face cord/rack are all independently come up with out of thin air, two different people can argue over how much those really are, they don't apply universally. A cord or a ton or a gallon is much closer to a real universal standard.

To each their own, I would prefer as both a seller or as a buyer to have a clear cut easy to understand measure, no matter what commodity you are talking about, corn to firewood to dog food to gas or diesel or whatever.

Please note, I am not trying to be insulting and am not trolling here, just I have been around and HAVE seen really big discrepancies in what people say are "ricks" or "face cords". Cord works, half a cord works, two cords works, and this is precisely why my state went to a universally understood measure for firewood selling. They had it the other way, it lead to a lot of problems because people would just claim this or that was this or that, with no legally defined way to see who was correct.
 
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