How I manage to heat my entire house with a "Smoke Dragon"

[Bushmans]

I have been thoroughly enjoying all the banter lately about EPA/CAT stoves that I just had to do a little video on how I heat my entire house with an old steel stove. No baffles, smoke shelf, cat, secondary air, burn tubes or even door seal.

The only thing it proves is that it heats MY house the way I like it. 2.5 cord of wood so far this winter with these brutal temps tells me it is not as inefficient as some might say.

It really boils down to how you apply what you're given to work with.
It is 14 degrees outside and blowing in the 30's. My house is at 73 degrees.

What I didn't video was the blower on the back of the stove and my snap disc thermostat control. Sorry!

 

[Whitespider]

Oooo... Oooo... I wanna' play‼ Sadly I have no idea how do do a video
I like that stove... looks a lot like dads, and that thing will pump out enough heat ya' can't get within 6 ft of it.

I've always said, you don't need an EPA certified stove to achieve secondary burn, ya' just haf'ta run the old smoke dragons correctly.
Just step outside and look up at the chimney... no smoke means the smoke is burning, ain't any more complicated than that.

Allow me to criticize just a tiny bit... OK?
The springs get weak on those flue dampers from heat fatigue... yours is too close to the stove. If you install them 18-24 inches above the stove top they'll last near forever, they're a bit less "touchy" on adjustments, and they won't get so hot-to-the-touch. Of course, you'll haf'ta move your thermometer above the damper... or add a second so you get a reading both above and below. Place them dampers higher than 24 inches and there can, or may be other issues... like not enough control (don't ask me why that is... 'cause I flat don't know).

I like... I like a lot... I like a whole friggin' lot.
*

 

[dustytools]

Nice set-up.

 

[MountainHigh]

Nice setup and good video! Like the way you've vented the hot air into rest of your house - moving all that hot air is huge part of your success. That damper is also key to working your non-epa stove well. How much creosote do you get in your chimney, you know you're burning good dry wood and at right temp if chimney stays pretty clean.

Nice job!

 

[stihly dan]

That is a good lookin stove and nice video. I think spidey might of even liked it a little. Maybe.

 

[Bushmans]

How much creosote do you get in your chimney, you know you're burning good dry wood and at right temp if chimney stays pretty clean.

I have cleaned it twice so far this season just because I am not familiar with it's habits. The first time I cleaned it I did just the straight flue and had about a half a coffee can full and the second time I did a full clean out on the straight flue as well as disassembling the interior pipes and scrubbing them and I had about 3/4 can full. All of it was very dry and flaky.
Flue is about 30' total length.

 

[flotek]

I like your setup ( it looks like a nice clean install too ) and no doubt it heats the house well especially with a floor plan like that where it can rise upstairs easily but I can assure you that your sending a great deal of that heat up and out your chimney heating the great outdoors . I think most guys that like our EPA modern units would agree It's not that a antique stove can't do the job it's more the idea the added benefits are undeniable advantages on new units such as twice the burn time a cleaner burn less creosote issues large viewing window a showy fire display giving ambience less wood consumption safer operation modern aesthetic look to match a modern home decor and the list goes on . I know for me personally and my lifestyle I would have no use for a heating appliance that couldn't evenly heat my home for more than ten hours per load I'm gone to frequently to feed an old unit every. 5-6 hours

 

[Bushmans]

I know for me personally and my lifestyle I would have no use for a heating appliance that couldn't evenly heat my home for more than ten hours per load I'm gone to frequently to feed an old unit every. 5-6 hours

In the video I stated I only filled it up for purposes of the video.
I can assure you that it heats my home for more than 10 hours.
I awake every morning at 4:15 and reload the stove while the dogs are out "for business".
I make sure to get a good burn on the wood and I adjust the dials before I leave for work at 5:15.
I get home from work at 4:30. There are still coals left with which to start a fire. The fan is always still blowing as well.
So that is just a tick over 12 hours. On 6 splits. House is usually between 69 and 72 depending on how cold it is. Sometimes I wait until just before bed to re-light the fire. I don't need to have the house at 74 all the time.
Again it depends on the weather. If we get a day in the 30s I will only load up three splits at a time otherwise it gets too warm. Yes it means lighting multiple fires but it seems as though there is always a few hot coals buried in the ash somewhere and if I dig 'em up and throw a few splits on them combined with a blast from my weed burner torch I have a ripping fire within 2 minutes.

I have no doubt that a stove like yours or Dels would be more efficient but at a cost of $2500 for the stove and a re-lining of my existing flue to a 6" I am looking at roughly $3000 and I'm sure there are a few other added costs but let's just say 3K. Now Del thinks I would save about a cord of wood per year which in my neck of the woods had a value of about $150......... $3000/$150 = 20 years.

I honestly don't think I'll even be in this house in 20 years but regardless that is a long time to recover an investment.
Sure you could say that it saves me time and fuel and energy in collecting that cord but then I lose out on being out cutting, splitting and stacking that cord as well. (Which I like very much)

Now as far as the glass? Yes I would like that. Heck If I had any welding skills at all I would make myself new doors with glass in them. First off I like the view, secondly it would make fine adjustments of the air control knobs an easier job and thirdly it would just be flat out cool looking stove!

Now lets say I move to a new house and take this stove with me and the floor plan of the new house is not like this one then chances are that it would become a room heater and not a house heater!

Don't get me wrong here. My intent is not to bash on your stoves but just to show what an old one is capable of when used correctly. The stove is not so efficient so the user must be!

 

[Whitespider]

...Del thinks I would save about a cord of wood per year which in my neck of the woods had a value of about $150......... $3000/$150 = 20 years.
The stove is not so efficient so the user must be!

I just wanted a chance to "Like" that again...
And good point well made... it really don't matter how efficient the box may be rated if the user ain't.
I have no problem getting 12 hours heating time from my smoke dragon furnace when temps are... say... in the 20's (the draft blower never runs at those temps). Below that, say down to around 0°, I get 9-10 hours, a bit more during the day if the sun is shinning. Below zero it does start dropping off rapidly, when it gets down around -20° at night, asking for 8 good solid hours is a bit optimistic... but 6-7 hours ain't out'a line. Of course wind can make a big difference also... a howler will subtract an hour, no wind and you can add an hour... (shrug).

Last night it was a bit warm outside... right around the freezing mark. I loaded the box something just over ½ full at 8:30 last night (call it a full armload). At 4:30 this morning it was 71° in the house... 12° outside, 28 MPH wind. I didn't put any wood in the box until about a ½ hour ago (5:30)... well heck, that's 9 hours of solid heating on less than a full box. We've pretty much hit our high temp for the day already, supposed to stay around 10° all day... but the sun is gonna' shine, and even with the forecast 20-30 MPH winds, gusts around 40... I'm betting I won't add any more wood until "Happy Hour". No matter how I figure it, I can't see where dropping a few grand on a new-fangled type furnace could pay for itself in less than 20 years (for me, I don't purchase my firewood)... are they even expected to last for 20 years?? (that's a serious question by-the-way)

But, forgetting about it paying for itself, if I just flat wanted one then the money wouldn't matter... I'd get it 'cause I wanted it. I won't deny there's advantages; maybe a little less maintenance, maybe more depending... but for what they cost, "savings" ain't one of those advantages for some of us, it don't even enter into the equation, it just flat don't. Less fuel used?? Sure, damn likely... but that don't automatically equal "savings"... ya' haf'ta weigh that against the start-up cost. If you're purchasing your cord wood... well... then it adds up differently, don't it? There flat ain't a one-size-fits-all application here... there flat ain't. Sometimes the old smoke dragon really is the better, more economical choice for some people. I mean, for me, the idea is to heat my home with as little expenditure as possible (so I can spend that money on something I want, instead of need)... and dropping a few grand on the appliance just goes counter to that.
*

 

[philoshop]

Sweet setup! Thanks for the nice vid too.

 

[Woody912]

I have been thoroughly enjoying all the banter lately about EPA/CAT stoves that I just had to do a little video on how I heat my entire house with an old steel stove. No baffles, smoke shelf, cat, secondary air, burn tubes or even door seal.

The only thing it proves is that it heats MY house the way I like it. 2.5 cord of wood so far this winter with these brutal temps tells me it is not as inefficient as some might say.

It really boils down to how you apply what you're given to work with.
It is 14 degrees outside and blowing in the 30's. My house is at 73 degrees.

What I didn't video was the blower on the back of the stove and my snap disc thermostat control. Sorry!

Heating for 34 yrs w/ my Fisher Grandma and I took my stovepipe damper out. Good wood and airflow

 

[Bushmans]

Well it's 7:45 am. I have been up since 5:30. Still had a big bed of coals after loading the stove last night.
It was 72 in here when I awoke. I went downstairs and pulled all the coals into a pile and opened the air knobs.
No need for more wood just yet. It is in the 20s outside now. ( HEATWAVE!) so I won't need anymore wood for a bit. I may just let it go so I can shovel it out later. No one is home today except me so if I let the house cool down to 65 or so then no big deal. I can have it back to 75 in a few hours if need be.

Spidey I forgot to comment on your damper comment.

I (sometimes think too much) decided to put my damper in right above the box because of a few things and I could be totally wrong but it was my reasoning at the time.

#1 There is no baffle or smoke shelf in this stove so I wanted to sort of create one. My thoughts were If I could slow down the ascent of the gasses right at the stove exit they may just have a chance at secondary ignition before exiting the flue. The build up needed to be close to the firebox for this to happen. Is it working? Don't know I can't see in there.

#2 There is not much room between the stove and the 90 degree turn so didn't have much of an option.

#3 I had read somewhere (probably here) to keep it about 12" above box.

It wasn't as bad as you see in the video until I removed it two weeks ago for a thorough cleaning of the flue.
Next time I clean I will put in a heavier spring. I think having it there is ideal because on stove start up when I really have the flames kicking they will shoot all the way up the pipe. The damper puts a stop to that.
I don't like the thought of the flames shooting all the way up to the elbow. That is another reason I always put on big flat split on the top of the load. It is my "smoke shelf" of sorts. Keeps the flames to the outside for the initial fire up.

 

[laynes69]

Just out of curiosity Bushman, what's your square footage your heating, and what's the age of your home?

 

[Bushmans]

took my stovepipe damper out.

Controlling air flow on this stove is a bit different. It has no door seal so there is always some air entering the firebox.
Perhaps with door seal I could control my air intake without using the flue damper and manage my firebox that way but everything I have read recommends not using door seal on this stove.
6 of one half dozen of the other.
As long as the airflow is restricted somehow.
But.............there is always time to fool around with it for sure. I still wonder about a cold air intake piped in from outside as well as secondary air tubes.
I need more experience and knowledge first. Another 1000 posts maybe????

 

[Whitespider]

LOL... well, I ain't a flue damper "expert", just passing some experience...
By-the-way... sometimes ya'-gotta'-do-what-ya'-gotta'-do... the flue damper in the pipe out in my shop is closer to the stove than yours is...

How's that go again?? Oh yeah...
"Do as I say, not as I do."
*

 

[Bushmans]

ust out of curiosity Bushman, what's your square footage your heating, and what's the age of your home?

The listing stated 1980 sq ft and it was built in 1980
Attic insulation is minimal. (been meaning to add more) Just slightly above lower portion of the rafters and the windows are terrible. I have to use the 3M window insulator kits on most of them. It is a 4 bedroom 2 bath bi-level with a very open floor plan which I believe is a big factor in my air movement.

 

[H-Ranch]

The math looks a bit different if you were to save two cords per year, which you would likely do with something like a Blaze King.

The math is also quite a bit different if you don't purchase wood, but cut it yourself like many of us do. Not "free" but significantly less than $150.

 

[philoshop]

"Smoke Dragon Herder"

 

[philoshop]

To be honest, I burn about 2 1/2 cord a year in my campfire-in-a-box. Pretty small 'footprint' as the saying goes. If I cut that consumption in half my saws would get rusty, I'd get soft, and my woods would get to the point where I couldn't walk through them. Two sides to every coin.

 

[Bushmans]

I burn about 2 1/2 cord a year in my campfire-in-a-box

I am on track for about 4 to 4.5 depending on if this winter runs long. On a "normal" winter I would have probably burned less. Hard to call -17 thru 10 degrees normal!

The whole emissions thing is a bit weird. What I mean is, the same smoke that exits our flue is exactly the kind of smoke stream I put meat in and then eat it!

Of course no smoke is safe to inhale but who stands in front of their flue exit and breathes?