How irresponsible is this?

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b1rdman

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My somewhat elderly parents asked me to help them plant a whole bunch of plants that they bought "for a song" at a local nursery.

12 Burning Bush
12 Norway Maple
6 Japanese Barberry

I'm in the Northeast (NH), so I suspect most of you know why they are so cheap. All three are on the invasive species list fall under regulation that takes effect on 1/1/2007.

How "bad" are these species? What would you do?

Thanks
 
"America wasn't founded so that we could all be better. America was founded so we could all be anything we damned well pleased."

Well then judging by your sig, you'll just chuck em in the ground and let er rip, eh? Unless it pleases you to be responsible, which is nice. I'd buy my parents some nice plants and plant those instead, and take the others back (or bury em). Tell the folks that they do not really want to curse their neighbors (and their heirs) with weeds, do they?
 
Whats the definition of a weed? In Landscaping its merely " A plant growing where one doesnt want it."

Im not an arborist, but Ive dealt with all three of those, and dont know why they would be considered "Invasive." Especially Burning Bush. Although, just like any other eunoymous(sp), it does take root easily from branches and such, but invasive?

Norway Maple is also a darn nice tree. Grows nice, and has a nice shape.

Japenese Barberry, I believe they get long stickers on them. But the foliage is very nice, and makes a nice "Privacy" hedge you dont want anyone to cross. Kind of a natural fence.

treeseer, Ive seen you give ALLOT of great advice here. Which is why Im stumped as to why you think those three varieties are "weeds."
 
Fyi

CaseyForrest said:
Whats the definition of a weed? In Landscaping its merely " A plant growing where one doesnt want it."

Im not an arborist, but Ive dealt with all three of those, and dont know why they would be considered "Invasive." Especially Burning Bush. Although, just like any other eunoymous(sp), it does take root easily from branches and such, but invasive?

Norway Maple is also a darn nice tree. Grows nice, and has a nice shape.

Japenese Barberry, I believe they get long stickers on them. But the foliage is very nice, and makes a nice "Privacy" hedge you dont want anyone to cross. Kind of a natural fence.
...Im stumped as to why you think those three varieties are "weeds."

An invasive species (plant, animal or insect) is one that becomes established outside of its native range, then multiplies and persists, usually at the expense of existing native species. An invasive plant can move aggressively into a habitat and take over the water, nutrients, sunlight and space used by native species, eventually eliminating them.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/dover/09082006/nhnews-d-backyardwindow9-8.html
 
Elmore said:
An invasive species (plant, animal or insect) is one that becomes established outside of its native range, then multiplies and persists, usually at the expense of existing native species. An invasive plant can move aggressively into a habitat and take over the water, nutrients, sunlight and space used by native species, eventually eliminating them.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/dover/09082006/nhnews-d-backyardwindow9-8.html


That's the definition, yes, but "invasiveness" is also relative. On the east coast, probably the worst plant I've seen is oriental bittersweet vine. It stangles and completely covers native veg; when you cut it, it can resprout and climb up the dead vine 10 ft. in one year! It's an especially lovely job to remove it, when it forms a tangle with multiflora rose, another non-native that has curved thorns up to a quarter inch long. Both of these were pushed as plants to cover waste ground and provide food and cover to birds (which they do), along with plants like autumn olive and russian olive.

On the other hand, one can be rightly thrilled when Norway spruce, American holly, sweetgum, scots pine, japanese maple, japanese cypress (Chamaecyparus pisifera) or japanese silverbell propagate themselves, all of which I have seen happen in CT. I've seen over 100 American Chestnut self-propagated from seed in an arboretum in OR (with some help from squirrels?).
 
Treeseer, that was a great post and very witty to pick up that guys sig line. I tried to give you some rep points but the thing said not today. :)
 
The good doctor hit the nail on the head when he said that "invasiveness" is also relative.

I have a burning bush that for whatever reason has not "invaded" my property. I also have bittersweet of some sort that was once a lovely vine crawling up a chimney on a garage. The garage has been removed but the bittersweet survived and consumed about 1/3 of an acre. Additionally, Norway Maples are fairly common here but I've never seen a nuisance outbreak of them like I have with other invasive species.

I'm still on fence. Anyone else want to chime in with a compelling opinion.

Treeseer, I'm obviously one of their heirs ... I'm also their neighbor. My experience and the Doctor's comments leave me wondering if your response was an honest one, or simply one based on the fact that you don't care for my sig. I have always respected the advice you give despite the way you deliver it. Thanks for your time, I've taken the liberty of adding to your rep on Ekka's behalf.
 
That's the definition, yes, but "invasiveness" is also relative. No it is not it is labeled and treated as such for a specific reason in this case. The plants in question are choking out native habitats and creating an ecological problem much the same way kudzu or purple lustrife does. We are not talking about spreading in your foundation bed. Norway maple yes is a pretty tree but also with major issues not even considering the whole invasive issue. But yes the birdies do like to play in them and nibble away at the seeds and then spread them all over the forest floor choking out all native species. Hell the Asian Longhorened Beetle is pretty and nothing gives your Hemlocks that year round winter wonderland fell quite like Woolly Adelgid all over the branches!:bang:
 
yeah, it was a package deal.....wild rose complete with starlings.....throw in a few carp for good measure.
 
bit of a high-jack but let me add............

hunters are live-trapping jack rabbits & bringing them here to ohio...

invasive? you tell me.

i've always maintained that if it's not here, well, probably wasn't meant to be...

flora or fauna..........
 
invasivness

Relative, yes. Allow me to speak for the northern Northeast - the area that has winters the likes of which southern New England never sees.

Here THEY'RE SEEDERS! That's all. Forget the roots and shoots sprouting stuff; THEY'RE (hardy) SEEDERS in Zone 3. Presumeably, they're also seeders in other parts of the US.

They're seeders whose seeds are attractive to many varieties of wildlife (who eat and excrete during their various wildlife peregrinations). Therefore, the fact that they DROP thousands of seeds (per mature plant) on the ground is compounded by the wildlife factor.
 
"I have always respected the advice you give despite the way you deliver it.'

Why that's very nice, thank you. :heart: The way I give it is designed to be fun (I gotta get somthin out of it) and provocative--keep the wheels turnin eh?

Barberry and euonymus alata are highly valued plants for the urban habitat here but I see em taking over in the woods of southern appalachia too. Norway maple I don't see here but its rep is bad.

Kate what are good natives up there to replace with?
 
my compelling opinion

I was actually shocked to find out that burning bush and barberry are invasive, they are common landscape plants here. Norway maples I knew about because they were overplanted as street trees after WWII (now they are a huge problem, not just seeds, but the roots, fungal diseases, etc.,etc.)
If the maples are of the 'crimson king' variety it might be kinda cool to plant them, I am told they are no longer available from nurseries. 80 years from now you may have the only one around.

GET RID OF ALL BITTERSWEET YOU CAN FIND. The nutjob who owned my house before me planted it all along the chainlink fence around my property. Twice a year I spray and pull and it keeps coming back.
 
natives for replacing invasives

treeseer said:
"I have always respected the advice you give despite the way you deliver it.'

Why that's very nice, thank you. :heart: The way I give it is designed to be fun (I gotta get somthin out of it) and provocative--keep the wheels turnin eh?

Barberry and euonymus alata are highly valued plants for the urban habitat here but I see em taking over in the woods of southern appalachia too. Norway maple I don't see here but its rep is bad.

Kate what are good natives up there to replace with?


I believe that replacements for invasives must take into asccount the untimate desired (client) goal. For instance, barberries can be kept short (a sheared, shaped low hedge - very popular in the 1600's through the 1800's as perimeter edgings for other gardens) or allowed to max out to 6' or more. Certainly, hard shaping/shearing will minimize seed drop.

Euonymous can be a standalone, middle of the lawn focal point or a 15' tall hedge - or anything in between. Either of these invasives are far less reprehensible in manicured lawns (where the seeds are less likely to drop on bare earth and germinate) than in a wilder setting - where their aggressive nature flourishes.

Norway maples? Not as much of a hot button issue here because of the many other sorts of maples that do really well here. Here's a link to what my state considers the biggest problems:

http://www.uvm.edu/mastergardener/invasives/invasives.htm

I don't mean to avoid the question, but the projected use should determine the plant material used. For a focal, standalone in a shady lawn, consider Cornus alternafolia (pagoda dogwood). A stunning layered shape, they can be single stems or multiples and max out at ±15'-20'. They'll tolerate sun if adequate moisture is available and can be pruned to smaller size, if desired.

Physocarpus (ninebark) are available in red and green leaved forms and also can be pruned to size. They could easily replace euonymous as singles or hedges. I've used them alternately with a Miscanthus sinensis 'Arabesque' whose flower scapes are the same color as the wine red of their (P. 'Diabolo') leaves. It's glorious. I know, the miscanthus is not native, but worth considering, as this particular variety is freestanding (not floppy) and very well-balanced in it's fountain-ing habit.

There are some very visually interesting and worthy dwarf (and not so dwarf) conifers for focal interest (standalones) in a lawn.

My advice to anyone considering any large scale installation would be to perform your due diligence (research) on what is and is not considered invasive IN YOUR AREA. Something invasive in the deep South isn't likely to be so in a place where winter temps go below freezing. There are exceptions (gaillardia comes to mind) - just do the homework. Remember to check the heat zone thing too, not just the winterkill zones.
 
wow!!!

Urbicide said:
Invasive species are bad news to local environments all over the world. The big ones on my property are bush honeysuckle and multi floral rose. The Nature Conservatory has a website called The Global Species Initiative. It is an interesting read. Here is a link.

http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/links.html

That is one amazing website, and it led me to a few more. Thanks
 
"An invasive species (plant, animal or insect) is one that becomes established outside of its native range, then multiplies and persists, usually at the expense of existing native species."

Holy crap, I'm an invasive species!!!
 
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