How should I drop small trees?

[Oldman47]

I have been studying how to drop wood properly but I have a 22 acre plantation that needs thinning. All of my planting was hardwoods and now that they have grown to over 20 feet tall they are starting to become crowded with their 10 foot by 10 foot spacing even though some were lost in the first few years. More or less standard tree falling dictates a face cut of some sort followed by a back cut with appropriate wedges but this stuff is pretty small at 6 to 8 inches DBH. Is a 6 inch tree just too small to fall it using standard methods? It seems to me that by the time I have room for a wedge in the back cut I will have already cut through the hinge wood, not something I really want to do.

 

[svk]

For those trees without a lean can you have someone help you with a push pole? Notch it, start back cut with helper pushing the tree to help get it going?

 

[zogger]

Little face cut, little back cut, give it a shove and walk back to the side. First few years we were here I had to do hundreds of little trees like that to reclaim pastures and fencelines. No need for wedging on most of them. Just read 'em like any other tree before cutting.

I cut at a comfortable height, low but comfortable for me, then go back and flush cut to get one more firewood stick.

 

[Cheesecutter]

As long as they aren't leaning or tangled above, it sounds like a small notch and then back cut should get them. On a 6-8" tree the back cut should be about 1" above the V of the notch and the tree should fall before you cut through the hinge wood. You may be able to push them by hand, but a wedge will help if needed. With 22 acres you are going to get alot of practice.

 

[slowp]

They are hardwoods so I have no idea how easy to push. Here's what we did with tall, spindly lodgepole pine. We had bowbars on our saws--this was in 1981, I think. You dogged in the bowbar ran the saw with one hand and pushed with the other hand and the tree went over. Or not. Not exactly perfectly safe, but we were under the gun to get production and that was the common method.

Or put in a face and cut like it was a big tree, except you won't have much wood to work with. In our conifers, trees of that size are often limblocked and don't want to hit the ground. Be sure to start on the edge and try to work trees towards the opening. We ended up having to pull the trees over with......a ........ tractor. Small trees don't have the mass in them to crash through the canopy of the stand.

One logger told me on our small maple to put the back cut in first because "those small maples want to sit back". That's another option. That takes pretty good saw control in order to not cut off the hinge.

That's all I know--I'm not a faller. But beware. all the good fallers I've been around say "It's the small trees that'll get you." Meaning they are just a dangerous or more so because of the lack of wood and mass to work with. Oh, and all trees are not equal. So there is not ONE way to get them on the ground.

 

[slowp]

Here's a few pictures from the little limb locked patch and my terrible job of "falling". My terrible Humboldt. After posting this on the F&L forum, it was suggested that I do a conventional cut. So I did.


I totally screwed up this one. I thought the "lean" was going in the other direction. It sat back on me. I got the saw out and re cut it quite badly. I was a bit nervous. I also left too thick of a hinge on it. I am a hack and I would fire myself if I cut for a living. This one was one of the few that hit the ground without a tractor assist. It had an opening to the road.


This one was my best. I had a small opening to gun towards, and I think the magnetic pull of the fence also helped guide it down. I got the OK to hit the fence because it was to be pulled out later. I had a learning experience here. I am not a faller, and if somebody wants their limb locked stand thinned, get a feller buncher to do it.

 

[Marshy]

Cut the back first stick a wedge in then cut the face notch then pound wedge. Otherwise just face notch, back cut and give a push.

 

[olyman]

buwahahhahahahhahaha..what a joke..........

 

[svk]

Slow makes a good point about smaller trees wanting to catch others on their way down. Over the past two years I have been reclaiming an old logging road that had grown in to a 4 wheeler trail due to lack of use for about two decades. Lots of 4-8" trees and just about every one of those buggers ends up hanging up to some extent unless I can drop them parallel into the trail. An ATV or tractor would be very helpful in your case.

 

[Oldman47]

I need to get out and get a picture of it for you guys today. So far it has not leafed out so you can see what the tops look like. I really don't expect much in the way of hang ups.

 

[chucker]

"SLOWP SAID!" " We ended up having to pull the trees over with......a ........ tractor. Small trees don't have the mass in them to crash through the canopy of the stand." .... and trying to make some of us here believe she wasn't a "FARMER LOGGER " after all this time! so slowp, is a cagey ole woodsman or woods woman after all ?? besides a secret farmer on the side with the likes to farm log's like the rest of us eastern flatlanders... "PLEASE" don't move here!! LOL or she might try farming with a shovel(mechanical) or a track skidder?? but then again just maybe she could teach us a new thing or three? "PLEASE " DONT MOVE HERE! I am too old to learn new tricks.

 

[chucker]

another good point steve! also slowp stated that " watch them small trees as they are the one's to get you" ... the small trees are and will get you some time or another ! especially when you are tired and wanting to "get it done", with a little of the "not me with the experience I have" !! it will happen !! how well many of us have been tagged by these little devils while walking away or just turning your back for a moment.... I will admit it "TWICE FOR ME" ...

 

[svk]

another good point steve! also slowp stated that " watch them small trees as they are the one's to get you" ... the small trees are and will get you some time or another ! especially when you are tired and wanting to "get it done", with a little of the "not me with the experience I have" !! it will happen !! how well many of us have been tagged by these little devils while walking away or just turning your back for a moment.... I will admit it "TWICE FOR ME" ...

Those small to medium sized trees have enough "bounce" off the stump to whack you good. Especially the ones without much crown to absorb the shock of falling.

 

[USMC615]

Here's a few pictures from the little limb locked patch and my terrible job of "falling". My terrible Humboldt. After posting this on the F&L forum, it was suggested that I do a conventional cut. So I did.
View attachment 421787

I totally screwed up this one. I thought the "lean" was going in the other direction. It sat back on me. I got the saw out and re cut it quite badly. I was a bit nervous. I also left too thick of a hinge on it. I am a hack and I would fire myself if I cut for a living. This one was one of the few that hit the ground without a tractor assist. It had an opening to the road.

View attachment 421788
This one was my best. I had a small opening to gun towards, and I think the magnetic pull of the fence also helped guide it down. I got the OK to hit the fence because it was to be pulled out later. I had a learning experience here. I am not a faller, and if somebody wants their limb locked stand thinned, get a feller buncher to do it.

View attachment 421789

...Slow is that you sittin' on the stump in the first pic?? Admiring that 'cut job'? Awful big saw in that there pic too...you must have a little pair of handlebars you strap on top of that bad boy and hang on for the ride. I suppose Ken's runnin that thing.

 

[CTYank]

If they won't fall clean to the ground, just help them along. Once off the stump, you can use a cable-winch (come-along) and pull the butt away, or make successive pairs of cuts up along the stem- one 1/3 through from above, the other below. At alny point there the winch can help pull the stem back lengthwise or sideways. Whatever works best for you. Keep winch & kit and wedges handy.

Best buck each one dropped, in succession, befor dropping others onto it. Obviously. Not rocket-surgery. Don't rush and wear helmet.

There are some hard-cases, with the crown well limb-locked. No biggie, an option: Make face-cuts low and 5-6' up, so you can "fold" a section of the butt down and away. Make the upper face-cut facing the opposite direction from where you want the butt of the stem above to fall,. and the lower one 180 deg out. 1/3 through would do.

With cable-winch and straps/chains from a foot or so above upper face-cut to a stout stump nearby, use long straps, snatch block (to redirect pull) or whatever works to keep winch operator safe. Apply light forch on winch, and make backcuts a couple inches above apex of each face cut. Leave sufficient hinge. With all hands clear, pop the cuts with winch. Repeat until crown is down on ground.

We've done that in some NY parks with some big dead oaks over trails that couldn't practically be relocated. Fun to watch from some distance as gravity takes over. Polesaw can help keep your face out of the action.

 

[slowp]

"SLOWP SAID!" " We ended up having to pull the trees over with......a ........ tractor. Small trees don't have the mass in them to crash through the canopy of the stand." .... and trying to make some of us here believe she wasn't a "FARMER LOGGER " after all this time! so slowp, is a cagey ole woodsman or woods woman after all ?? besides a secret farmer on the side with the likes to farm log's like the rest of us eastern flatlanders... "PLEASE" don't move here!! LOL or she might try farming with a shovel(mechanical) or a track skidder?? but then again just maybe she could teach us a new thing or three? "PLEASE " DONT MOVE HERE! I am too old to learn new tricks.

Nope. I am not any kind of a logger. Merely a retired forester. I do not own a tractor. The property owner has a small tractor. SVK, that stand of trees is so limb locked they don't fall very far at all. The alternatives are 1. Leave it alone, which is what has happened. 2. Take out more trees than the land owner wants--so that's not an option. 3. Use something to pull them over which is slow and one really should have a winch and cable to be safer than the tractor and long chain. 4. Use a buncher or processor to get them on the ground.

In the real world of timber sales, I would get a phone call from a logger to come out and look at the problem area. I'd walk it with the faller and either mark out additional trees to cut to make an opening so the faller had an opening to work towards, or leave the cut marked trees--some were not worth the extra trees that would have to be cut to get them on the ground. You can learn a lot just doing that if you ask questions of the faller.

 

[chucker]

Nope. I am not any kind of a logger. Merely a retired forester. I do not own a tractor. The property owner has a small tractor. SVK, that stand of trees is so limb locked they don't fall very far at all. The alternatives are 1. Leave it alone, which is what has happened. 2. Take out more trees than the land owner wants--so that's not an option. 3. Use something to pull them over which is slow and one really should have a winch and cable to be safer than the tractor and long chain. 4. Use a buncher or processor to get them on the ground.

In the real world of timber sales, I would get a phone call from a logger to come out and look at the problem area. I'd walk it with the faller and either mark out additional trees to cut to make an opening so the faller had an opening to work towards, or leave the cut marked trees--some were not worth the extra trees that would have to be cut to get them on the ground. You can learn a lot just doing that if you ask questions of the faller.

just making a little "AS FUN" SLOWP! we all know you are a fine "RETIRED FORESTER" and a farmer/logger at heart ! you like to garden, even if it's trees for shade or fruit as there all heat in the end.

 

[Oldman47]

Pictures as promised.
View from the road

Looking along a row

 

[olyman]

Pictures as promised.
View from the road

Looking along a row

why do people have the habit of planting them sooo close together? then when they when hey grow a bit,,they are crowding each other??? state does it here all the time!!!

 

[kingOFgEEEks]

Could you girdle the trees that you want to thin? After a year or so, there wouldn't be very many branches, and it would be easier to drop them. In the meantime the cull trees would not be shading the keepers, and they would be drying standing upright, getting ready to be firewood.