How to get the wood out of the woods....??

[bob621]

DR powerwagon

My wife bought me a DR wagon two years ago for Christmas. We use is a lot, including bringing in the same kind of wood, maybe a little bigger. We use the DR a lot - not just for wood, and it has made it a lot easier to bring in wood from distant parts of the lot that the old Garden cart.

A few observations:
The wagon will handle slopes pretty well, but does not like rough ground. Our lot is typical southern New England overgrown field - fairly flat, but strewn with barely visible rocks. If you're trying to get from A to B the Powerwagon will find plenty of them, and the tires are too small to just run the DR over them.

Keep the little one away from the wagon when it's in motion.

But if you have (or can make) a reasonably smooth path to where you want to cut, the wagon works great. Comes in a couple of sizes, with or without a dumper.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I am considering renting a skidder and flatbed to do some pine salvage logging. Might even make some money if I can get enough logs to roadsides so a self loader can take a load of the right sort and get a good price. I would be coordinating multiple properties, and getting paid stumpage by the self-loader driver, and then maybe splitting the profit with the landowner. My crew would hand pile and burn (or chip). Many owners do not want a machine to hand pile in their backyard, and would balk at my price to make firewood out of the trees and haul them away.

The trees have to be processed this winter, or the beetles will emerge in April -may and kill more trees. Just looked at a property today: 5 prime logs (32 to 49 in. at breast ht., small or no limbs, 4 of the 5 green, one blue stained); 6 lower grade logs. i visually estimated log lengths at 36 to 42 ft. for all. These big prime logs and a few from neighboring properties would be worth a long haul at a profit. Local mills won't take anything over 32 in. on the butt.

Problem:

Hiring a logging outfit to get them to a gravel road for a few trees would wipe out the profit. Still would be a lot cheaper than hauling it away by hand; alternative would be burning the bark off and leaving it -- but a waste!

Other problem -- there are probably more rules and insurance and even training required now, compared to my experience doing some urban logging around Portland in 1987. We learned as we went working for a big tree service, using full sized skidders (John Deer, Mountain Logger, Pettibone), even loaded and unloaded them on a flatbed (which we also drove without a special license), using 6 by 12 beams to get 'em on and off, if you can believe that.

So, not realistic to think I could scrounge some heavy equipment, beams, and go loggin'?

 

[VTWoodchuck]

Used atv with trailer. I bought a 11 year old Polaris Sportsman 500 for $1500 and an atv trailer rated at 1200lbs for $300. I can't imagine how I would get by without it as I'm 16 acres all but 2 of which is wooded. I enjoy just riding around on the trails I made too, especially in the winter!

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Since it's your own land you have an edge. If it were me I'd clear a driveway through the center of it. Takes some work but you'll be better off in the long run. I've done them by hand with a mattox.

Cut the bigger ones flush with the saw. Once you get the driveway/path cut you can go cheap and just use a riding mower and trailer. If you want to get a quad, get a quad but it's just normally more money and more apt to be stolen. Just being real here. Cut when you can with supplies and such in the trailer and when it fits, meaning froze or dry, haul it out.

 

[H-Ranch]

These guys with unlimited budgets are making it hard - where's Zogger when I need him?? :msp_smile: He knows how to make do with what you have. (I think even he might cheat with tractors from the boss's farm from time to time though...)

With 2 acres and only taking deadfall you can't justify much $$ for equipment. I do a lot of mine with a good ole' fashioned wheelbarrow. You can't do it when the ground is soft or when there is a foot of snow, but otherwise it can be done. It's a slower process that is good exercise too. If that doesn't suit you, a lawn tractor with a cheap trailer can do quite a bit if you make a trail system.

After my knee surgery I felt that the wheelbarrow was excellent therapy (lightly loaded as need be.) You have to provide a bit of balance and can set it down if it starts getting out of control.

 

[artbaldoni]

Check out this thread. Plenty of ideas there.

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/62563.htm

A cheap garden tractor and a trailer. Pop for some chains for the tractor. You will be surprised what you can do.

 

[Jere39]

I know this is an old thread, but, since I wasn't even a member when it started, and a few guys have brought it up again. I'll add my 2¢. I cut in the woods surrounding my house. I have a very capable JD x728 GT that works fine with one of my two trailer/carts. But, I don't like to drive it in the woods when the mower deck is on, which is essentially April thru November. So, last year I bought a 10 year old Bombardier ATV, added a Hitchin-Post 3-way hitch and pull one of my carts with it. I don't have to make roads in the woods, I can just meander around the trees. If I drop a dead Red Oak in some thick stuff, or briars, I just saw into manageable logs and drag them to a more convenient area to finish bucking them. Saves a ton of back breaking carrying. And, with the better clearance, I have not yet had to quit cutting due to snow.

Small garden cart for winding through the woods:

Or, ¾ ton licensed trailer for moving larger loads, or for delivery

View attachment 274415View attachment 274416

 

[TJ-Bill]

I put a winch on the back on my ATV.. works good, I lift the front of the logs up off the ground and they slide and don't get hung up.

Found some pics

 

[cantoo]

TJ-Bill, you might want to consider a skidding cone for that setup? Rear suspension on a quad usually isn't very suitable for the weight of logs. Put the cone on and just lift enough weight to give you some traction and away you go. I would even just try an orange traffic cone to see if it helped. I think the highway department gives 1 or 2 of them away once in awhile, they set them out on the road and if no one is looking you just take a middle one, so I've heard anyway.
There's usually a little sticker on the back rack saying how much weight you can put on them, maybe 75 lbs?
As for the other guy skidding pines, buy an older farm tractor , use it to skid the logs and sell it for same buying price when you are done.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

TJ-Bill, you might want to consider a skidding cone for that setup? Rear suspension on a quad usually isn't very suitable for the weight of logs. Put the cone on and just lift enough weight to give you some traction and away you go. I would even just try an orange traffic cone to see if it helped. I think the highway department gives 1 or 2 of them away once in awhile, they set them out on the road and if no one is looking you just take a middle one, so I've heard anyway.
There's usually a little sticker on the back rack saying how much weight you can put on them, maybe 75 lbs?
As for the other guy skidding pines, buy an older farm tractor , use it to skid the logs and sell it for same buying price when you are done.

That's an idea (I'm the guy wanting to skid pine logs). Problem is, the log trucks want at least 32 ft. logs, up to 42, and these are big -- a potential tree I looked at yesterday was 49 in. dbh, probably can add a foot at stump height. Skidders have the weight, center of gravity, and large winch needed.

Do appreciate the comment. I am tilting towards hooking up with a logging outfit once I have several jobs in the same area lined up to reduce set-up costs. No way could i buy a used skidder and flat bed to move it around, plus i assume there are various rules and licenses that will increase time and expense to to the thing legit. Getting popped without the right license, insurance, and improperly loaded or overweight equipment on a county road would be a nightmare:msp_scared:.

 

[Fred Wright]

Second on the use of a garden tractor and heavy-duty dump cart. This scenario has been working well for us and it didn't cost a boatload of dough to get going.

I started in the woodlot with a lawn tractor and heavy-duty cart. The lawn buggy was outfitted with AG tires but the mower deck bottomed out in the soft ground and got stuck. My brother gave me an old Murray GT he had setting around. I did some minor repair work and got a pair of AG tires for it. A heavy cartload of rounds, she'll pull it outta there.

 

[cantoo]

TreeGuy, sounds like getting everything on the ground and then having the skidder come in is your cheapest bet for that big stuff.

 

[TJ-Bill]

TJ-Bill, you might want to consider a skidding cone for that setup? Rear suspension on a quad usually isn't very suitable for the weight of logs. Put the cone on and just lift enough weight to give you some traction and away you go. I would even just try an orange traffic cone to see if it helped. I think the highway department gives 1 or 2 of them away once in awhile, they set them out on the road and if no one is looking you just take a middle one, so I've heard anyway.
There's usually a little sticker on the back rack saying how much weight you can put on them, maybe 75 lbs?
As for the other guy skidding pines, buy an older farm tractor , use it to skid the logs and sell it for same buying price when you are done.[/QUOTE


I only skid a few logs at a time. If they are large then they are cut up into smaller lengths.

Works good for me.. I see the advantages in the "cone" but it only woks in an idle situation and on smaller logs,,

for me the winch lifts the log end off he ground and that enough for me.. I agree ATV rear suspension aren't setup to carry the weight of haulling logs out.. but if they where this would be a different topic!!!!:msp_biggrin:

 

[zogger]

Where can I find more info on that little truck? That would be a great thing to have at my hunt camp to run around on 155 acres hauling wood out.
Finnbear

Where I used to work they had several little mitsubishi trucks that looked like that. Ok, they are cool, but have like two inches ground clearance, so I am not real sure how overall practical they might be offroad unless you stick to hard surface/ground/gravel road.

 

[zogger]

These guys with unlimited budgets are making it hard - where's Zogger when I need him?? :msp_smile: He knows how to make do with what you have. (I think even he might cheat with tractors from the boss's farm from time to time though...)

With 2 acres and only taking deadfall you can't justify much $$ for equipment. I do a lot of mine with a good ole' fashioned wheelbarrow. You can't do it when the ground is soft or when there is a foot of snow, but otherwise it can be done. It's a slower process that is good exercise too. If that doesn't suit you, a lawn tractor with a cheap trailer can do quite a bit if you make a trail system.



After my knee surgery I felt that the wheelbarrow was excellent therapy (lightly loaded as need be.) You have to provide a bit of balance and can set it down if it starts getting out of control.

Ha! cheating with the tractor! hahahah

On the cheap, I used a 90 lb dog once! I carried the bowsaw and axe, he dragged the logs out. Not huge logs, but the logs I was doing by hand, 6 to 8 inches usually, saplings and big branches. A ew larger, but not real big, 30 inch bowsaw keeps ya honest on what is doable with your muscles. Made a harnesss from old junk kicking around, a feed sack and straps from my back pack. Beore I had that dog, I was the draft mule, I dragged logs out the same way. Actually I will 5th or 6th the old riding lawnmower idea, as long as you dont overload it. Winter time is good to get one cheap.

I you have a bit more, an old wheelhorse or simplicity or case or whatever, etc, a real *garden* tractor. They will have all heavier dutier components, plus do your garden and some other chores, lots of accessories. Then you get into small diesel compact tractors, small yanmars, etc.

the other idea is any old beater 4wd vehicle. No bother to register, cut that baby up at the fenders or clearance and put ag tires on it, dedicated off road. Maybe like a cherokee or something, anything cheap they made zillions of and not necessarily huge, go small instead. Place to store saws and stuff, skid logs out or just load up the back or tow a small trailer.

I think you can get old N series fords all over heck as well for under 2 grand in usable condition..

All right, you guys want something wild? Here it is! Two acres, aint large, nothing all that ar away. . Big winch back at the ranch and just winch all the logs back! Im serious, cobjob a big winch with a small engine to run it. Truck wheel and pulley and decent lawnmower engine. Or do it in two or three stager, limited by how much line you might have. 300 feet get ya most of the way. One of those winches that doesnt contain and wind up the cable, just a big turning drum you throw one or two loops around it with the rope and thats tension enough, loosen it a little, it just stops. Man its easy. Theres a name or those but forgotten what they are called now, but it is what we used on the fishing boats for the small try net..

It works like those masdam ratchet rope pullers, but uses a turning drum instead.

 

[H 2 H]

If you cant buy a mule (4x4) or a quad go and check out your local Equipment Rental Center for a short time use

 

[kenfain]

haulin wood

I used a rider mower,pulling one of those small utility wagons that are about two and a half by four feet long. Worked great! You gotta make a few trips. But hey you do with what you have. I set up a small area for cutting and stacking wood right out there in the woods. Some stuff I'd cut and split right where it fell. If your lot is fairly flat and dry, that's all you need. I would recommend an atv sized trailer, cause it'll be more useful in the long run. Just don't overload the trailer.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

TreeGuy, sounds like getting everything on the ground and then having the skidder come in is your cheapest bet for that big stuff.

That's what I'm thinking. First get some contracts signed to remove the trees, estimate log volume, and then maybe sub to a logging outfit to get the logs to where a self loader can haul them. A lot of moving parts to making a profit, though: I need to get enough logs to locations that are close together, where a self loader can get a full load and profitably haul the logs. Meanwhile, I don't know that the loggers will wait to get paid until the logs are sold -- and they may be on the ground for a month or two.

If I had a fat bank account, i would just buy the stumpage from the landowner. These trees are on different properties, and few have a full load in a given sort. The big logs have to go far away, as I said.

So, right now, I am lining up interested property owners, and estimating log volumes and grades and access on my own dime. When it seems like a deal is possible, I'll get a logger. There are a lot of logging outfits, but only a few self loaders around. I believe that the cost of bringing a skidder, loader, and log truck to multiple properties to get a load just would not pay.

 

[H-Ranch]

One of those winches that doesnt contain and wind up the cable, just a big turning drum you throw one or two loops around it with the rope and thats tension enough, loosen it a little, it just stops. Man its easy. Theres a name or those but forgotten what they are called now, but it is what we used on the fishing boats for the small try net.

Zogger! Always have an idea and I have no doubt you'd rig it up to get the job done if you had one lying around. I think the term you're looking for is capstan winch - the old Willys Jeeps used to have them.

 

[Gologit]

Meanwhile, I don't know that the loggers will wait to get paid until the logs are sold -- and they may be on the ground for a month or two.

Most loggers want their money as soon as the job is done or on a specific schedule. A guy who can't pay until he sells the logs has a cash flow problem and most loggers are wary of that kind of deal.

Also, if your logs are going to lay on the ground for "a month or two" be prepared to get docked a bunch when the mill scales them. Even if you're selling by the ton they'll scale the first loads to establish a defect baseline. If you're only bringing in a few loads and they look ground-soft they'll probably scale every load.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade here...just giving you some real-world experience and a better idea of what logging really is.