HP: milling green vs. dry

[outofstepper]

Greets all.
So I'm new to milling -- every tree I see now is a standing pile of boards.

I do want to take this one step at a time, but I'm wondering what the
additional horsepower requirement (ballpark guess!) would be for milling
dry wood?

I'm asking because I may have access to some dry fruits.. cherry mostly..
for not very much money. Thing is I'm running a 290 and I'm afraid it's
already doing a lot of work milling 15" green (white oak).

How much more power might it take to mill the dry stuff? Percentage wise..
i'm wondering.. only 10% more? 50% more? twice as much?

If i'm going to be putting a heavy toll on the saw, or its going to take me
1/2 an hour to cut each board.. I might pass on the dry stuff.

 

[guitarborist]

I use an 075 and have just about stopped milling dry wood unless it is too good to pass up. I would probably go for the Cherry though. What is the diameter? I would go with an 044/440 or bigger. Your 290 will be overwelmed most likely. The biggest problem I find with dry wood (mostly Norway Maple in my case) is the need to sharpen the chain more often and the increase vibration. On the upside the drying time and warpage are less.

 

[gemniii]

Your definitely going to want more HP.

If your sure your going to mill go up to a 660 class machine or larger. The extra bucks will be well spent. I started milling with a 62cc machine and it was definitely out of it's class when the fresh red maple got over 15". My 660's do 20" plus with authority, and I don't have any bigger wood yet.

And wait and go used (unless you have plenty of cash!).

I had been collecting price data on completed MS660/066 listings on eBay.

Last February prices were around $500, they went up to an average of $720 a month ago, and are now pushing even higher. I expect them to drop after Christmas. I'm not advising anyone to buy off eBay, they are just a price barometer.

Make sure you get a machine w/ an inboard clutch and side chain tensioner.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

You'll need at least a 70cc saw for milling. That 290 will burn up before long without a doubt.

I mill with a ported 7900 and even that saw isn't enough half the time. Get a 372 with the 75cc jug on it companied with the HD air filter kit. That or consider a 7900 with the HD air kit or even an MS441.

 

[TSRuff]

The green vs. dried conversation comes up every once in a while. The general consensus in the US/Canada is that as soon as it hits the dirt it should be milled. Many species that I cut (especially black ash) become significantly harder the longer they sit. Green ash cuts like butter, dried ash like concrete.

However, in a couple of threads with BobL from down under (man I've been waiting a long time to say that) there are some species he mills that actually become softer as they dry. So I guess the answer to the question is, it depends.

For me, I don't have the patience to let a log stay round for very long once it is on the ground...

 

[BobL]

However, in a couple of threads with BobL from down under (man I've been waiting a long time to say that) there are some species he mills that actually become softer as they dry. So I guess the answer to the question is, it depends. .

I think you are referring to Lemon scented gum. It's a smooth barked tree and its better to mill this when the bark starts to turn red and flake off (up to 3 months in summer and 6 months in winter), but not because it's softer but because the amount of checking and warping is reduced if one waits just that bit longer. Otherwise I'd mill as soon as possible.

As for the amount of HP needed for green versus dry, it's probably related to the difference in janka hardness between green and dry timber and can be anywhere from 20 to 50% more. For Temperate hardwoods it is about 30% (See http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrp/fpl_rp643.pdf). Bottom line is, 15" wide dry white oak is not a job for a 290 and even green I wouldn't be doing too many.

 

[outofstepper]

Thanks all and thanks again BobL.
I'm going to take this rig for a spin as soon as the weather clears.. but
I already did some calling around.. a local shop has a used Dolmar 80cc
saw (at least the guy is pretty sure its 80cc) -- its old .. looks like something
out of world war I, but he says it runs like a tank. (I hope thats good, ha!)..
its still only got a 20" bar on it and he doesn't think he can get me a longer
one (?) .. but $100 is the asking price and may be worth not killing my 290.

My "beater" saw is a poulan pro 45cc .. but as soon as I even THOUGHT about
mounting to that one it turned yellow. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[TSRuff]

I think you are referring to Lemon scented gum. It's a smooth barked tree and its better to mill this when the bark starts to turn red and flake off (up to 3 months in summer and 6 months in winter), but not because it's softer but because the amount of checking and warping is reduced if one waits just that bit longer. Otherwise I'd mill as soon as possible.

A search through my posts indicates that as usual you are correct Bob!

 

[mikeb1079]

I already did some calling around.. a local shop has a used Dolmar 80cc
saw (at least the guy is pretty sure its 80cc) -- its old .. looks like something
out of world war I, but he says it runs like a tank

.

now you're on the right track. keep an eye out for older saws, as you can often pick them up for a song compared to an equivalent hp modern saw. for example, there's two 80cc+ saws on my local craigslist right now. both are 200 or under. do some searching for parts availability before choosing one though, it's no good to have a broken milling saw.

like you i started with a 60cc saw. it works but it can quickly become frustrating. once i realized i enjoyed milling i picked up a 90cc saw and it was like night and day. waaay more enjoyable experience. save your 290 for bucking and trimming (which you'll still need anyway) and look for a nice older saw. careful though, within a year or two you may end up with stacks and stacks of lumber!

 

[820wards]

The green vs. dried conversation comes up every once in a while. The general consensus in the US/Canada is that as soon as it hits the dirt it should be milled. Many species that I cut (especially black ash) become significantly harder the longer they sit. Green ash cuts like butter, dried ash like concrete.

I milled a 24" wide dry ash tree with my mill and it wasn't a problem, just a lot of dust. My mill has a 134cc motor so it didn't work too hard and milled pretty easy.

jerry-

 

[TSRuff]

I milled a 24" wide dry ash tree with my mill and it wasn't a problem, just a lot of dust. My mill has a 134cc motor so it didn't work too hard and milled pretty easy.

jerry-

The white ash I have milled doesn't seem to have the same hardening to it, but the black ash does. Also, ash from farther noth in Minnesota seems to be harded than the city trees I sometimes mill. Not sure if it is from the minerals that get pulled in up there... but that's my theory.

I've got a 3120, sounds like you have an 090.

 

[820wards]

The white ash I have milled doesn't seem to have the same hardening to it, but the black ash does. Also, ash from farther noth in Minnesota seems to be harded than the city trees I sometimes mill. Not sure if it is from the minerals that get pulled in up there... but that's my theory.

I milled a white ash tree, never a black ash.

I've got a 3120, sounds like you have an 090.

My mill is actually built from an industrial 2-stroke motor. It is a 134cc 820 PowerBee motor. There were a few companies in the 60's that built chainsaws with this motor. I have a 1967 Montomerty Wards 820 saw that uses this motor. Very powerful and gobs of torque. But my mill does not use a chainsaw frame, it's all hand built. Even had to make the clutch drive rim from two different drums. With a 2" exhaust pipe, it makes some serious noise. The 090's I believe are 138cc so they are a bit larger.

jerry-

Here's a few pictures of the mill

Here is my 820Wards saw with a 30" bar.

 

[TSRuff]

That's a thing of beauty I have to say. Do you have any pictures of the drive shaft and sprocket connection to the bar/chain?

And how many tooth sprocket do you run? With the 3120 I generally run a 3/8 x 7 in hardwood and 8 in softwood or smaller diameter, it sounds as though you have sufficient torque to go higher.

 

[Brmorgan]

Thanks all and thanks again BobL.
I'm going to take this rig for a spin as soon as the weather clears.. but
I already did some calling around.. a local shop has a used Dolmar 80cc
saw (at least the guy is pretty sure its 80cc) -- its old .. looks like something
out of world war I, but he says it runs like a tank. (I hope thats good, ha!)..
its still only got a 20" bar on it and he doesn't think he can get me a longer
one (?) .. but $100 is the asking price and may be worth not killing my 290.

How old?

This old:
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...8435887c332eb9fb88256b0b001654ef?OpenDocument

or not quite so old:
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...a7f2e9617b1261a788256d8200137cd0?OpenDocument

Not sure I'd recommend milling with a CC, though they are nice old saws; parts are next to non-existent though. A 133 would make a solid milling saw, but some parts are hard to come by for those too. Having said that, I wouldn't think twice about paying a hundred bucks for either of those in running condition. Easy to re-sell and make a few bucks.

 

[820wards]

That's a thing of beauty I have to say. Do you have any pictures of the drive shaft and sprocket connection to the bar/chain?

And how many tooth sprocket do you run? With the 3120 I generally run a 3/8 x 7 in hardwood and 8 in softwood or smaller diameter, it sounds as though you have sufficient torque to go higher.

Ruff,

Here is a picture of the drum I fabricated from two different drums. I started out using a 7 x .404 drive rim and it worked just fine. I just installed a 8 x .404 rim and it sped the chain speed up by 14%. With this engine I can actually adjust the timing so I can advance the timing a couple of degrees. This motor actually has three stacked head gaskets and if I want more compression/hp I can easily remove one or two gaskets. This motor is capable of making some real HP. I haven't found anything yet it won't cut through. These motors are hard to find used and can be purchased new for over $1K. I had a friend tell me he saw a used, motor only going for $400. I was lucky to find a new never fired Chrysler produced motor for $400. I do have a spare motor in the event I ever have a problem with either of my motors.

Shot of sprocket mounted on mill with chain adjuster.

jerry-

 

[outofstepper]

820-- now.. THAT.. is a work of art.
I'm speechless.

 

[820wards]

820-- now.. THAT.. is a work of art.
I'm speechless.

Thank you. You will see many great mills that people here on these threads have built from scratch. We all get ideas and help from each other. If you haven't started milling, try it, you'll get hooked on it.

jerry-