Pfffffftttttt.
I Have My Heart Set On Logging
- Thread starter TheDailyStroke
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Pfffffftttttt.
802climber
ArboristSite Operative
This looks like great advice. This is the same path I seem to be headed down. We have been working on the credit building for years now, goal is to buy a real nice piece of land.
I have done all of that except for the signing jobs (have my eye on a few nearby) and buying an old machine. I have begun to enjoy thinking about actually doing it.
Been looking at old cable skidders up north (wi) - Looking at JD 440's and Old Timberjacks. Want to find something with turbo, wide tires, chains, and being worked not just sitting around.
My question is, if I could find a good old machine in the $10-15k range, how much of an equipment loan would I want to have for repairs, etc "just in case" while I make my money back..?
What can ya find for 10,000 in NH? Not sure if they are cheaper or more expensive out here.
Oldtimer
Addicted to ArboristSite
If you can get it, a $4K-$5K cushion in the bank over the loan amount is a good idea. Just don't use it for anything except break downs and a payment when it might be in question.
Here, $10K buys an old 208 TJ with a 353, or maybe a C5D Tree Farmer. My old C5D is up for sale again, guy never even used it. I know I could go give him $9K and own it.
It runs a Duetz 5 cyl, best diesel engine ever made.
However, you want a John Deere with BOTH grapple and winch.
No other machine for the money has the features it has. You want to run it up to full operating temp (both engine and transmission and also hydraulics) before you buy one..See that it does not run hot, and the transmission remains solid.
The Deere will have the steering due to lock-in lock-out axles, and the JD powershift. A TJ, Clark, Franklin, Tree Farmer, International Pettibone, pretty much ANY other $15K skidder will have full time locked rear ends: crabwalk city. And a grapple doubles your output on average.
This is a GREAT machine for the cash, I have the very same skidder myself. TRUST me, it's light-years ahead of a small cable...yet fits down the same trails. There's no end to the tricks you can pull with this machine after you get good with it. It doesn't have a winch, and mine doesn't either. I have not yet needed a winch. But you can find them for $2000 or so. This one has the trail building blade too, a JD450 dozer blade! At least a 4 way, and maybe even a 6 way.
I use mine to gather brush, and use the brush as "bumpers" to avoid scarring leave trees. I build bridges with it, pop stumps, move boulders, load my F550 dump with it, on and on.
I use around 10 gallons a day if I am on the move with big hitches, less if I try. I set the hand throttle and use the transmission to go faster or slower. Makes a HUGE difference in fuel use.
John Deere Grapple Skidder 1989
Here, $10K buys an old 208 TJ with a 353, or maybe a C5D Tree Farmer. My old C5D is up for sale again, guy never even used it. I know I could go give him $9K and own it.
It runs a Duetz 5 cyl, best diesel engine ever made.
However, you want a John Deere with BOTH grapple and winch.
No other machine for the money has the features it has. You want to run it up to full operating temp (both engine and transmission and also hydraulics) before you buy one..See that it does not run hot, and the transmission remains solid.
The Deere will have the steering due to lock-in lock-out axles, and the JD powershift. A TJ, Clark, Franklin, Tree Farmer, International Pettibone, pretty much ANY other $15K skidder will have full time locked rear ends: crabwalk city. And a grapple doubles your output on average.
This is a GREAT machine for the cash, I have the very same skidder myself. TRUST me, it's light-years ahead of a small cable...yet fits down the same trails. There's no end to the tricks you can pull with this machine after you get good with it. It doesn't have a winch, and mine doesn't either. I have not yet needed a winch. But you can find them for $2000 or so. This one has the trail building blade too, a JD450 dozer blade! At least a 4 way, and maybe even a 6 way.
I use mine to gather brush, and use the brush as "bumpers" to avoid scarring leave trees. I build bridges with it, pop stumps, move boulders, load my F550 dump with it, on and on.
I use around 10 gallons a day if I am on the move with big hitches, less if I try. I set the hand throttle and use the transmission to go faster or slower. Makes a HUGE difference in fuel use.
John Deere Grapple Skidder 1989
palogger390
ArboristSite Member
Give it a go with your father. At the very least you will learn a little about logging and test the waters to see if that is the career path you want to follow.
My dad and I have been logging together for about eight years and things have worked out good for the both of us. We started out with a $6,000 Franklin cable skidder and 3 wore out Husqvarnas. Eight years and nine machines later our current set up is a Timbco buncher, 2 Franklin grapple skidders, and a Cat dozer, mostly paid for and still just the two of us.
My advice is if you acquire the experience necessary and decide to adventure out on your own, don't be afraid to have a few payments on nicer equipment if you have plenty of work. If you spend all of your time fixing junk equipment you aren't putting wood on the landing. Good luck and stay safe.
My dad and I have been logging together for about eight years and things have worked out good for the both of us. We started out with a $6,000 Franklin cable skidder and 3 wore out Husqvarnas. Eight years and nine machines later our current set up is a Timbco buncher, 2 Franklin grapple skidders, and a Cat dozer, mostly paid for and still just the two of us.
My advice is if you acquire the experience necessary and decide to adventure out on your own, don't be afraid to have a few payments on nicer equipment if you have plenty of work. If you spend all of your time fixing junk equipment you aren't putting wood on the landing. Good luck and stay safe.
That's good advice and I'll add a little to it.
I don't like to carry too much debt but there are times when it's unavoidable. Logging is about production and a good machine will help you make money. Keep up on the mechanical stuff...filters, hoses, fluids, and tires. If you have something that you think is questionable, change it out. Maintenance isn't expensive when you compare it to downtime and the money you're losing when a machine should be working. Downtime will just flat kill you.
Keep good books on your expenses or have someone keep them for you. Save every receipt for anything even remotely concerning your operation. You have to know where your money is going. Find out how you can legally write off every expense you can.
And one thing about debt...when those payments are always in the back of your mind it seems to give you a little more incentive to get out there and get some work done.
Last edited:
redprospector
Addicted to ArboristSite
I might as well throw in my 2 cents.
I make a list of each piece of equipment and try to figure out what it cost per hour to operate it.
I'll use my Fecon for example, and start with the obvious.
It uses about 25 gallons of diesel in an 8 hour day, so at $4 a gallon that's $12.50 an hour.
I change the engine oil every 250 hours, costs about $50 if I don't count labor. That's another $0.20 an hour.
Being a masticator the hydraulic oil & filters have to be changed every 250 hours. The required fluid cost $465, and the filters are $72 each and there's 2 of them. So that's another $2.44 per hour.
The teeth are about $3500 a set and you hope for 500 hours out of them. That's another $7 an hour
I'm hoping to get 4000 hours from the undercarriage before total replacement at about $15000. That's another $3.75 an hour.
Replacement cost of the machine is about $140,000 and hopefully I can get 6000 hours before that happens. That's another $23.33 an hour.
Of corse the operator needs about $20 an hour.
I could go on & on, but we'll total what I have, and that comes to $69.22 per hour that comes out of my pocket for that machine to be running.
This money has to be set back in an account that is taboo to touch for anything other than what it was set back for. No, no one is charging for it right now, but sooner or later they will and you have to be able to pay for it, or you won't be in business long.
Andy
I make a list of each piece of equipment and try to figure out what it cost per hour to operate it.
I'll use my Fecon for example, and start with the obvious.
It uses about 25 gallons of diesel in an 8 hour day, so at $4 a gallon that's $12.50 an hour.
I change the engine oil every 250 hours, costs about $50 if I don't count labor. That's another $0.20 an hour.
Being a masticator the hydraulic oil & filters have to be changed every 250 hours. The required fluid cost $465, and the filters are $72 each and there's 2 of them. So that's another $2.44 per hour.
The teeth are about $3500 a set and you hope for 500 hours out of them. That's another $7 an hour
I'm hoping to get 4000 hours from the undercarriage before total replacement at about $15000. That's another $3.75 an hour.
Replacement cost of the machine is about $140,000 and hopefully I can get 6000 hours before that happens. That's another $23.33 an hour.
Of corse the operator needs about $20 an hour.
I could go on & on, but we'll total what I have, and that comes to $69.22 per hour that comes out of my pocket for that machine to be running.
This money has to be set back in an account that is taboo to touch for anything other than what it was set back for. No, no one is charging for it right now, but sooner or later they will and you have to be able to pay for it, or you won't be in business long.
Andy
You and your dad ought to work together, unless the two of you can't get along. Two working together should outproduce two working separately, I'd think. Good way for you to lend your youth and enthusiasm, and for dad to lend his experience and equipment. If you both respect each other and can communicate openly and fairly, you should do well.
TheDailyStroke
New Member
This is all great advice and I really appreciate it all. I have considered asking him about me getting to work with him some and see what happens. I found that everyone on this site is nice, experienced (or trying to get there), and extremely respectable. I appreciate the courtesy and come back to this site (and the people) very often.
dozerman37
ArboristSite Member
any luck?
hows it going so far working on your logging business?
hows it going so far working on your logging business?
J
jrcat
Guest
J
jrcat
Guest
Oldtimer that is almost word for word my business plan, Just adjusted for the area I am in. I am planning on a log truck (self loader) this way if I am not in the woods or pushing dirt I can be trucking logs, including trucking my own logs. The more tools in the tool box the more that can be done to make money.
"cable loader"? Is that a ####in yarder?
imalogger
ArboristSite Lurker
Bit by the logging bug..
As a young wanna be logger I might share my limited experience and thoughts on the matter. The best advice I ever got from a older man who ran a sawmill was "start small and work your way up". My advice if you don't have much cash laying around is to work for someone else for a year or two before you jump into equipment ownership. I can completely understand the desire to want to do it "all on my own" because I'm kinda the same way but you have to be ready with enough cash on hand for repairs, maintenance, fuel and anything else that happens to hit you. I saved much of what I made working for my dad on the farm and was able to buy all my equipment with cash. I've been blessed that way, that's a privilege not everyone has. In fact working on the farm is really the only thing that has kept me afloat, but since I log on the side and the equipment is paid for it can sit until a good job comes along or i need to scratch the itch.. If you work for someone you will likely have a more stable income with a Lot less stress. If your a one man operation you've Gotta be able to fix things yourself, and the not get depressed when things do break down. Sometimes I've felt like a whole lot more like a mechanic than a logger and you cannot let that get you down. Keep your word and be honest with people even if you have to take the short end of the stick once in a while. It's well worth it in the long run. A good name in the neighborhood is invaluable.. Buy at least one really good saw and another one to cut it out when ya pinch it. And PPE. Ill take my car to the job when the weather allows cause it gets twice the mpg's of my truck. And like a previous poster said, get yourself a credit card and pay it off in full every month. It builds your credit score & you'll need it to order parts for your old equip.. Good luck, I hope something works out for you.
As a young wanna be logger I might share my limited experience and thoughts on the matter. The best advice I ever got from a older man who ran a sawmill was "start small and work your way up". My advice if you don't have much cash laying around is to work for someone else for a year or two before you jump into equipment ownership. I can completely understand the desire to want to do it "all on my own" because I'm kinda the same way but you have to be ready with enough cash on hand for repairs, maintenance, fuel and anything else that happens to hit you. I saved much of what I made working for my dad on the farm and was able to buy all my equipment with cash. I've been blessed that way, that's a privilege not everyone has. In fact working on the farm is really the only thing that has kept me afloat, but since I log on the side and the equipment is paid for it can sit until a good job comes along or i need to scratch the itch.. If you work for someone you will likely have a more stable income with a Lot less stress. If your a one man operation you've Gotta be able to fix things yourself, and the not get depressed when things do break down. Sometimes I've felt like a whole lot more like a mechanic than a logger and you cannot let that get you down. Keep your word and be honest with people even if you have to take the short end of the stick once in a while. It's well worth it in the long run. A good name in the neighborhood is invaluable.. Buy at least one really good saw and another one to cut it out when ya pinch it. And PPE. Ill take my car to the job when the weather allows cause it gets twice the mpg's of my truck. And like a previous poster said, get yourself a credit card and pay it off in full every month. It builds your credit score & you'll need it to order parts for your old equip.. Good luck, I hope something works out for you.
ShearHeadMS
ArboristSite Lurker
Same as imalogger said, I'm a young gun too, just finished my first thinning job on a 20 acre pine plantation. Did it all with a 1 ton truck, 10 ton goose neck, Massey furgason 451 with grapple and loader and a husquvarna 562 saw. Can't say I worked at a fast pace, but with low overhead and keeping the land owner happy I made decent money. Now if I can find a feller buncher for a decent price I feel I can do larger jobs. I didn't have the luxury of having family or friends in this industry. But iv learned from a few old timers and I enjoy what I do on the side. Can't say I'll ever make it big time, but with my areas crooked timber company's I'm sure I'll have a little work here and there
Similar threads
