I hit metal and now make crooked cuts

[sean donato]

I had a whole dissertation written up about how chain works in practice...deleted it because of exactly what just happened. lol

Some people just refuse to be open to the idea of being wrong. I was in their corner not long ago...then I took a long hard look at it and realized I was wrong. The information is out there if they decide to seek it out. Not only that, all it takes is sharpening a chain so that tooth lengths are different and cutting with it. Which was the first thing I did when I realized I was wrong...and sure enough...even with all one side sharpened shorter, it still cut straight.

Yep, I was like that once too....

 

[TRTermite]

It also gets your customer service moved up the food chain. By keeping someone working, you help the shop. Local shop has a young guy / late 20's, who works in the afternoons, driving the van and trailer around. Machine pick-up's, and deliveries. When he's in the shop, he goes straight to the sharpener bench. He takes his time, and is getting better. His sharpened chains are mirror-like. He will also firmly tell the customer, "this chain is beyond sharpening/ its junk". His work has value, as does his desire to do it right. He'll sell you a box of files, and hand guide, and show you how to practice. This Guy is willing to lose his job, to keep it.

Deal with your local shop, regularly. The savings are in the costly stuff. The true value is in being considered, "A Good Customer".

Yer POST deserves more than just a "LIKE" I like "What" you said and I like "How" you said it.
(humor me) This time...

 

[ValleyForge]

Yep I'm done, I've explained this every way I can think and your still thinking 2d. Assuming the chain is glued to the bar.

maybe one day you’ll get it…lol

i will apologize for getting kert with you, it’s the mechanical engineer in me…the argument becomes black and white and it frustrates me when people don’t get it. I’m much better at managing expectations now than when I graduated engineering school…lol

 

[ValleyForge]

I had a whole dissertation written up about how chain works in practice...deleted it because of exactly what just happened. lol

Some people just refuse to be open to the idea of being wrong. I was in their corner not long ago...then I took a long hard look at it and realized I was wrong. The information is out there if they decide to seek it out. Not only that, all it takes is sharpening a chain so that tooth lengths are different and cutting with it. Which was the first thing I did when I realized I was wrong...and sure enough...even with all one side sharpened shorter, it still cut straight.

So you won’t communicate because you’re afraid of being wrong..…communication is the cornerstone of our Republic…without it, we will cease to exist….

 

[sean donato]

It ok, there's something you just can convey over the Internet with out seeing it first hand. This is one of them. It's one of those ah ha moments when you realize how the chain actually cuts, cuts is wrong. Chips at the wood. I get it completely why you can't understand.

 

[TRTermite]

Wow. Hard to find people like that anymore

Some times the Management is directly responsible for the employees attitude, Sometimes the Customer has a Huge influence as well. Reminiscing old memories.

 

[TRTermite]

The reason that chains can cut crooked are unequal cutting forces on each side. Sharpness, raker height, and tooth angle. Random cutter length is not a cause but this idea may have been started years ago because some sharpening methods/tools will cause a wrong raker height unless all teeth are the same length. A progressive raker height tool is best for unequal cutter lengths.
Personally, my biggest problem is tooth angle, especially when using many strokes to sharpen damaged chains. The easy side is always correct but I have to be extra careful on the awkward side or it will always be a slightly different angle. A tooth with more angle will cut with less force than one with a lesser angle.

But the tooth with the sharper edge/angle will dull sooner and then pull harder and confound your analytical imagination.

 

[ValleyForge]

But the tooth with the sharper edge/angle will dull sooner and then pull harder and confound your analytical imagination.

But the duller cutters will stay sharp longer….talk about confounding…Lol

 

[TRTermite]

I think it was "PHILBERT" that posted an Illustration showing how a raker filed short would let the cutting edge poke its' head up and grab some wood and then HAWG into the wood, a long /tall raker will allow a cutting edge to STARVE. With a cordwood saw(Crosscut circular/Buzz saw) it is considered "HOOK" it can self feed or make feeding a chore or other funky some times dangerous results.

 

[TRTermite]

But the duller cutters will stay sharp longer….talk about confounding…Lol

Like answering a question with a question.. I like that way of triggering the imaginating/visualating feature of a mind.

 

[sean donato]

Gonna try to explain this one last time. Forgive my poor pictures.
Cutter comes along and grabs a chip. This forces the chain down into the wood for a short period of time. (This is the chip we see flying out of the wood. The next cutter grabs where the first cutter left off, there is essentially a little low and high spot. Rinse wash repeat at a high speed. Using my finger exaggerates what I trying to convey. It's also normal that every cutter doesn't cut every pass at the same time. If you pictured a longer bar and chain they kind of caterpillar through the wood. It's not a linear motion. More of a grab, dive, grab dive, grab, dive motion. We're just chipping small bites. .025-.030" at a time. Even looking at a noodle you can see where the cutter dives into the wood, the wood is consistent then tapers back to nothing. The other cutters doing this same process causes the dive portion to stop and rotate the cutter back again. Rinse wash repeat.

 

[ValleyForge]

Gonna try to explain this one last time. Forgive my poor pictures. View attachment 991001
Cutter comes along and grabs a chip. This forces the chain down into the wood for a short period of time. (This is the chip we see flying out of the wood. The next cutter grabs where the first cutter left off, there is essentially a little low and high spot. Rinse wash repeat at a high speed. Using my finger exaggerates what I trying to convey. It's also normal that every cutter doesn't cut every pass at the same time. If you pictured a longer bar and chain they kind of caterpillar through the wood. It's not a linear motion. More of a grab, dive, grab dive, grab, dive motion. We're just chipping small bites. .025-.030" at a time. Even looking at a noodle you can see where the cutter dives into the wood, the wood is consistent then tapers back to nothing. The other cutters doing this same process causes the dive portion to stop and rotate the cutter back again. Rinse wash repeat.

So, I could grind that cutter down to the stub line and leave it between the two normal cutters and somehow it will still grab a chip even though it can no longer reach the wood?

Your pic is excellent, it shows exactly what I’m talking about…

 

[ValleyForge]

Like answering a question with a question.. I like that way of triggering the imaginating/visualating feature of a mind.

Given a long enough timeline, everything will be identical in the end…lol

 

[TRTermite]

So, I could grind that cutter down to the stub line and leave it between the two normal cutters and somehow it will still grab a chip even though it can no longer reach the wood?

Your pic is excellent, it shows exactly what I’m talking about…

There is only one answer that "Youse Gouys" might agree to disagree on. Chain sharpening is sorta like Corn Cobbs, Cats Arses, and TURPETINE. If it works for you just DEW it. AND WEAR YOUR PPE (gloves).

 

[sean donato]

So, I could grind that cutter down to the stub line and leave it between the two normal cutters and somehow it will still grab a chip even though it can no longer reach the wood?

Your pic is excellent, it shows exactly what I’m talking about…

Yep, it practice it grabs I have some nasty rock chewed up chains that have a bunch short cutters on them. They cut. The rocking of the cutters off the bar and I to the wood causes this.

 

[sean donato]

Actually that particular chain will have one lower cutter on it. After taking that picture I spun the chain around and noticed I must have grabbed something with one of the cutter and the tip is pealed down. It'll be just fine and cut just as straight as can be.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

So you won’t communicate because you’re afraid of being wrong..…communication is the cornerstone of our Republic…without it, we will cease to exist….

Nope. Not afraid of being wrong at all. Like I said, I agreed that all cutters should be the same length for a long time because that's what I was taught. Then people started telling me that wasn't true. I scoffed at the idea, then I looked into it further. Spent quite a bit of time viewing slow motion footage and trying it for myself. Realized they were correct and my original view on the subject was demonstrably wrong.

I'm just old enough to know when to stop arguing with people that aren't interested in anything but their own preconceived untested notions.

 

[Squareground3691]

Number of strokes that’s a myth of bogus proportions, no such thing only thing that matters that you have a razor sharp tooth then use a raker gauge to each tooth

Repeat again,

 

[ValleyForge]

Nope. Not afraid of being wrong at all. Like I said, I agreed that all cutters should be the same length for a long time because that's what I was taught. Then people started telling me that wasn't true. I scoffed at the idea, then I looked into it further. Spent quite a bit of time viewing slow motion footage and trying it for myself. Realized they were correct and my original view on the subject was demonstrably wrong.

I'm just old enough to know when to stop arguing with people that aren't interested in anything but their own preconceived untested notions.

I was wrong once when I bought a Husqvarna chainsaw…lol

But I know what you mean…I’ve spent decades trying to explain engineering to people with preconceived untested notions…..math and physics are hard and looking back I guess that’s a good thing because not everyone should do it….

 

[Squareground3691]

I was wrong once when I bought a Husqvarna chainsaw…lol

But I know what you mean…I’ve spent decades trying to explain engineering to people with preconceived untested notions…..math and physics are hard and looking back I guess that’s a good thing because not everyone should do it….

It’s all about sharing info from real hands experience and letting members learn from each other experiences and understanding exactly what there trying to convey to everyone live and learn and enjoy the ride