I just bought a splitter

[Patrick62]

Craigslist. I had to call the guy. I will be picking it up in the morning.
This one has a few interesting features. The Wisconsin engine is a keeper. It looks like they are driving the pump with a chain drive. That makes me think single stage pump (something mis-appropriated from the mine) The cylinder looks good but the rod size might be a touch small. Overall the construction looks good :hmm3grin2orange:

Then I will scratch my head until I turn it into another self propelled model!

 

[waldershrek]

the rod size might be a touch small.

Not the first time you've heard that I'm sure!

That looks like a real nice splitter actually. Usually those home made ones scare me. Been looking at them myself.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Here's your pic, Patrick:

I've used my splitter to dismount quite a few junk tires myself!

The nice thing about those old Wisconsins is that when you shut it down hot, you're usually committed to a nice long break while it cools down.

Personally, I think rod size is more of a sales gimmick than an actual problem. My loader tractor uses pretty skinny (about 1 1/2" or so without measuring) rods on the lift cylinders, and has been used and abused for close to 40 years without bending one. If it does bend, you can easily replace it with a bigger one, but until then, just keep on splittin!

 

[turnkey4099]

Nice find and it looks like a quality build.

Harry K

 

[BrokenToys]

Lose the Whitewalls !!! Or get some hubcaps or SOMETHING ....
Nice looking unit - good luck with it !

 

[PlankSpanker]

Here's a Wisconsin AENLD engine (9.5 HP) or thereabouts, with a custom-made pump mount and new 2-stage pump. I ditched the chain and sprockets along with the single-stage pump and couldn't be happier. I did have to make accommodations for a larger tank however. If you want details, I'll be happy to share. I was experiencing hard starting issues with my engine, but a fresh coil in the magneto solved that problem. Good luck!

 

[Patrick62]

look what followed me home

Okay. Engine runs good, needs come minor carb work. Got quite a bark to it, seems to have a pretty big jug.

Chain drive single stage pump is gonna get re-designed along with most of the machine. Cylinder is honking at around 6 inches. cycle time is pathetic :msp_ohmy: at 70 seconds... with the engine running pretty well (not at full rpm, but what would the point be??? if it ain't moving at 2400... it ain't going to go much faster at 3600 (if the engine was willing...)

I would like to know what I got for a engine. The creator and his rattle can painted over the info tag, I scrapped enough off to find it is a Wisconsin, 3 1/2 by 4, AGN. The only thing I can find is a AGND rated at 12.5 and that looks about right. This thing is kind a large... It would also put it at around 50 something years old. Runs good....

I am thinking about a single stage pump of about 16 gpm (the torque of the engine should pull it, maybe?) and a 4" cylinder.
Workable?? or maybe some other combination.

Suggestions??

 

[flyboy553]

My only experience with a Wisconsin engine was on our hay baler(Dearborn) when I was a kid. had a hand crank it to start it. What a noisy old thing that was! Heavy too!

Ted

 

[Ductape]

Only thing I'll suggest is that you ditch any cast iron elbows and fittings anywhere on the pressure side of the system. They are generally rated at 150 psi, not the 2000 psi + that a hydraulic system is running at.

 

[palmrose2]

I am thinking about a single stage pump of about 16 gpm (the torque of the engine should pull it, maybe?) and a 4" cylinder.
Workable?? or maybe some other combination.

Suggestions??

Instead of buying a new cylinder and small pump, I would keep the six inch cylinder and buy a 22gpm two stage pump and bigger hoses to go with it. Haldex Hydraulic Pump — 22 GPM, 2-Stage, Model# 1080035 | Pumps | Northern Tool + Equipment I can't see the wedge in the pic, but a 22gpm with 6" cyl shouldn't have a problem with a 4 way wedge. You would have a real beast of a splitter.

Cheap and dirty = putting a larger sprocket on the engine with corresponding longer chain. Like a one to one ratio. Can you find any info on the pump? Some pumps don't like to spin very fast.

FYI The pump inlet hose only needs to hold up to a little vacuum and should be of sufficient size to offer no resistance to flow. Cavitation is a pump killer.

A 6" cylinder holds 1.5 gallons per foot of length. 24" long cyl. would take a little over 3 seconds to fill @ 22 gpm. The backstroke would a little quicker. Total cycle time would ~ 6 seconds.

You really don't want a single stage pump.

 

[lfnh]

built 40 years ago, no repairs/rebuilds on anything, other than engine oil

Kohler K-301 (12hp) rope start, 1-2 pulls cold.
Drive Kohler 4.5" to 7" on pump double B belt (mostly for over speed prot)
Gresen TB-12 Vane 1500 psi
8.00 GPM at 900 RPM kohler at
11.00 GPM at 1200 RPM
17.10 GPM at 1800 RPM

Pushing Prince 4x36 (5636) 2" rod

approx numbers:
Push Force 18,850 lbs
at 12 gpm Kohler at 2000
Extension Speed 3.7 inches per second
Retraction Speed 4.9 inches per second
(mostly run 16-20" splits so it's a reasonable cycle)
full cord of split and load time sucks down about 3/4 gal

handy links just in case
Engine HP
Hyd Calculators/URL]

maybe something here helps
Lee

 

[Steve NW WI]

A 6" cylinder holds 1.5 gallons per foot of length. 24" long cyl. would take a little over 3 seconds to fill @ 22 gpm. The backstroke would a little quicker. Total cycle time would ~ 6 seconds.

I'm not one of the grammar police around here, but I am a badge totin math cop. 6" bore, 24" stroke, 2.93 gallons. 3 is close enough for what we're doing here.

3 gallons/22GPM=.136 minutes, or just over 8 seconds. Probably will have a roughly 14-15 second cycle full stroke, assuming you don't kick into low while splitting. Still a reasonable cycle time.

<End math class>

I agree that a two stage pump will be a better fit, especially with a large cylinder. I'm betting it won't be kicking down very often at all. If we use a 500PSI relief pressure before going to the second stage, that gives just over 7 honest tons of force before kicking down, more than some guys with the small electrics have available.

Since most 2 stage pumps need to run off a jackshaft to get rid of side loads anyway, keep the chain drive setup, and overdrive the pump so you can run the pump at full speed (usually 3600 RPMs) at the lowest engine speed you can get the 'Sconnie to pull without stalling. That might take a few different sprocket combos to find, but should make a pretty easy on fuel, hard working machine when you're done.

 

[Patrick62]

Ideas always help!

The first thing to bear in mind is that I run a firewood operation up here. It needs to move at a reasonable pace. Not so fast that people are gonna hurt themselves, but gotta get wood split!

Existing splitter has a 10 1/2 second cycle time (5 inch cyl, 22 gpm)

Excellent ideas gentlemen!

More food for thoughts. I do like the idea of using the cylinder, it is about right in length with a 20 inch stroke. The only concern I have is it has 1/2" ports on it. Then I got to thinking that a typical log splitter valve has 1/2" work ports... and they rate it to 25 gpm. Might be workable. Can I get 22 gpm thru the ports on the cylinder without generating a ton of heat?

I will get a caliper on the thing today, figure 1/4" wall thickness, but it sure looks like a 6" to me.

I love doing the math as well:
28.27 square inches, 20 inch stroke, 2.45 gallons on extend.
26.5 sq in, 20 inches, 2.29 gallons on retract.

Total volume of oil per stroke 4.74 gallons. Okay a bathtub of oil per stroke.
New information! I just measured the circumference, it is a 5" cylinder!! :biggrin::biggrin: that makes it a keeper!!

What is necessary for splitting force (tonnage)?? With a cylinder of 28 square inches 1000 PSI would get me 14 tons. Which most likely would split almost everything. This is why I feel that a 2 stage pump is not necessary. For the last second of busting a knot the thing can peak and ya might wanna step back cause it is gonna pop the log pretty good :msp_scared:

One thought I have is that the engine would be way happier at less than 3600, if it really is a AGND then the max is 3200 (and half the fuel goes out the exhaust (flathead engine). So I think back that off to about 2400 and let it purr along. Size a single stage pump accordingly to get me the GPM I want, and go for it! 12.5 HP, rated but who knows what it can really do??

More thoughts? Meanwhile I gonna start building a frame for this thing!

 

[palmrose2]

I'm not one of the grammar police around here, but I am a badge totin math cop. 6" bore, 24" stroke, 2.93 gallons. 3 is close enough for what we're doing here.

3 gallons/22GPM=.136 minutes, or just over 8 seconds. Probably will have a roughly 14-15 second cycle full stroke, assuming you don't kick into low while splitting. Still a reasonable cycle time.

<End math class>

Did I say use a 22gpm pump? I meant to say 60gpm pump. Yeah, 60 gpm pump. That's the ticket.:smile2:

 

[Patrick62]

Did I say use a 22gpm pump? I meant to say 60gpm pump. Yeah, 60 gpm pump. That's the ticket.:smile2:

That would do it up right!! Gonna need a little larger engine...

 

[ShaneLogs]

Here's your pic, Patrick:

I've used my splitter to dismount quite a few junk tires myself!

The nice thing about those old Wisconsins is that when you shut it down hot, you're usually committed to a nice long break while it cools down.

Personally, I think rod size is more of a sales gimmick than an actual problem. My loader tractor uses pretty skinny (about 1 1/2" or so without measuring) rods on the lift cylinders, and has been used and abused for close to 40 years without bending one. If it does bend, you can easily replace it with a bigger one, but until then, just keep on splittin!

That splitter looks like a original! Do you happen to know what year that thing is ?

 

[Patrick62]

That splitter looks like a original! Do you happen to know what year that thing is ?

it's origional all right. Was created in the 70's by a older gentleman who did it the old fashioned american way. He used what was available. It is cobbled together in a rather unique way. Biggest problem was the cylinder size in relation to the pump volume.
Slower than molasses in winter. Read the thread... a 70 second cycle time :msp_ohmy: