I want to experience kickback

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dpilot83

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I now have an Echo CS-400. It came with Oregon 91 chain (I was surprised that it did not have any other marks on the chain drive teeth, pictures of the chain installed below). I am buying one of each of the following chains:

  1. A loop of Stihl 63PM
  2. A loop of Woodland Pro 30LP
  3. Possibly a loop of Husqvarna H35x although this is the most likely one for me to skip
I want:
  1. Faster cutting performance in normal cuts
  2. Better ability to keep going down in the cut if the nose is buried because the bar is not long enough to go all the way through
  3. To not kill or maim myself
I do not have a lot of experience with chainsaws but I do have a lot of experience with many different kinds of dangerous equipment and tools.

In my experience, it's best to learn about a bad thing in a controlled environment when you're expecting it rather than when you're not expecting it so I want to intentionally experience something similar to the worst kickback experience that I might have with this particular saw while I'm prepared for it.

In this way I hope to better know how to avoid kickback as I'm using the saw and how to protect myself from a kickback event should I have one anyway by handling the saw in a manner that keeps me out of harms way.

I intend to experiment with this by:
  1. Ensuring that my body (especially my head) is out of the same geometric plane that the bar and chain is in
  2. Touching the tip of the bar into a log while running half speed or so on the saw a few times
  3. Touching the tip of the bar into a log while running full speed on the saw a few times
It is unlikely that I will be convinced to not do this by any comments on this thread although an exceptionally convincing comment may perhaps cause me to reconsider. What I primarily hope to learn from this thread is if there are situations that will cause more kickback than the test that I am planning. I want to know what the most dangerous thing is like so I don't learn about it in an accident, but rather controlled circumstances.

Any thoughts? Thanks.
 
I have been lucky enough to not experience violent kick-back, so I'm just thinking logically here.

I have shot my pistols without hearing protection so that I know what to expect should I ever be in a situation where I need to use it to save my life, so I understand your desire to experience something like that under controlled circumstances. (I don't make a habit of this BTW.)

At a minimum, I would buy a hard hat that you can sacrifice to the Gods of trial and error. Bolt a piece of steel pipe across the brim. Make the steel pipe wider than the helmet so you have some shoulder protection as well. If the saw does jump hard, you'll at lease have something more than plastic between the chain and your face. A full face shield would also be a good idea.

Another idea - rig up a rope between your test log and the safety stop on the saw. Make sure the rope is long enough to give you the freedom of motion that you need, but short enough that if the saw does kick at your face, the rope pulls the stop before the saw gets to your face.

An ace bandage on your wrists for added support may also be a good idea. If it kicks hard, your wrists are in for a hell of a ride - even though you're expecting it.

--------------------------------------
: : ETA : :
I left my original post is above. You know what, I'm an idiot and was looking at it from a purely logical standpoint not knowing what the real outcome could be. I guess I have been lucky enough to have never experienced kickback before. No one ever warned me about the possibility of it so maybe I subconsciously understood the physics of the saw and just knew to avoid situations where it would be possible. Who knows. Either way, I hope to never experience it.

After reading through this thread and looking at some of the videos I realize that kickback is nothing at all like shooting your gun without hearing protection. I'm going to join the chorus - DON'T DO IT!!!!!
 
Bankers never handle counterfeit money as a means of learning to recognize it. They know the real stuff so well that the counterfeit is immediately obvious.

Learn to use your saw at intended, in a safe manner. You should always be aware of where the tip of your bar is. Besides, sooner or later, you're probably going to experience kickback. When you do, hopefully you've leaned safe operating skills and it will be a non-event.
 
In my opinion you logic is flawed. You don't have to experience kickback in order to prevent it or know how to deal with it. Under many circumstances when kickback happens there is no controlling it. They best way to deal with it is everything you do to prevent it. That is what you need to focus on. Proper body positioning the correct cutting techniques are going to keep you a lot more safe than training how to dodge a bullet. When it happens unanticipated it happens so quick your reflects are all you have and they will not protect you.
 
I just watched a video of a guy getting his saw into a chain link fence. After watching it I agree that there will be no point to trying to create a kickback event. I doubt I could create anything that severe with just using wood and if I could I would not want to. No way to prepare for that other than just doing your best to avoid it.

 
Another by Buckin' Billy Ray Smith. This is more what I expected but even so, it's the crazy ones like the first video that I'm scared of, not what he's showing. I'm not going to intentionally put my saw into a chainlink fence so I now agree with ya'll. Intentionally putting the tip in wood like Buckin' Billy Ray Smith did is not going to teach me much and putting it in a fence might kill me so I think I'll just leave well enough alone. Thanks again!

 
A landscaper I know hit a piece of metal in a landscaping timber. The saw kicked back and skidded across his face before digging into his neck. Almost killed him. A helmet probably would have helped him out.
 
dpilot83 said:
I just watched a video of a guy getting his saw into a chain link fence. After watching it I agree that there will be no point to trying to create a kickback event. I doubt I could create anything that severe with just using wood and if I could I would not want to. No way to prepare for that other than just doing your best to avoid it.

Click to expand...

Perfect example of why you keep your hand behind the brake. There were many other things wrong with this one too though. It does show how quickly things can go wrong. A sawsall would have been a better choice than a chainsaw for that job anyway then you could have cut right into the ground as those blades are a lot cheaper.

To the OP, if you watch the second video with Billy Ray notice how heavy of a saw he is using and also realize your saw weighs less than half of that setup so if you do the same as he did you should expect bad things to happen. He has cut a tree or two and you heard what he said about a 394(I think he said) flying over his shoulder which is also a saw weighing more than twice yours does.
I understand wanting to learn, but this is not one of those things that you want to have experience in, but something to avoid.
As you cut more you are sure to experience it in various situations, but it's something we cutters should do the best we can avoiding.
I think a great question to ask is "how do I avoid kickback".
Since I haven't seen you around since you joined, welcome to the site, hope to have you around a while ;).
Brett
 
RandyMac said:
A big saw can kill you with impact alone, the little ones can give you quite a bite.
Geardrives can 'walk' out of a binding cut like a torpedo.
Never have any part of you behind a saw, whether it is a little plastic crap saw or a big incher.
Click to expand...
Why don't you have a way to start a conversation/PM.
Could you contact me, I have a question for you.
Thanks,
Brett
 
I had a BIG lodge-pole pine with a bifurcated trunk. Because of lay-out, I really needed to drop each trunk separately. I was running my Husky 390XP and was making my back cut on the first trunk. I had a well-positioned felling wedge that was keeping the kerf open and ready for some swings with the ax to push the tree over. I was running a 28" bar and I got the tip just a bit too deep and it caught the second trunk. The saw kicked back so hard that the bar knocked the wedge out of the kerf. The tree instantly settled on the bar and the saw was stuck fast with no wedge keeping the kerf open. I was shocked that a kick-back had that much power. I'm a cautious guy anyway, but this has made me even more aware of just how dangerous kick-back can be -- particularly with a big saw. I really don't want to experience that again...

JQ
 

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