Ignition won't spark unless flywheel moving really fast?

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B.C.

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Hello all, I'm needing to know a bit more about ignition coils and spark. Have this Homelite Timberman 45cc saw that I recently acquired that is giving me some problems.

When I first got it, I could see that the piston was shot. First thing I did was get a new piston and cylinder, also replaced the crank seals while I was at it. Pressure tested crank case when done and a compression test, both good.

Cleaned the carb out & started it up. Didn't run like new but after some adjusting it was decently good. Then just the other day I used it for a day of cutting. It wasn't bad, but seemed to need to be pulled a lot if I shut it off on the first day, it did idle fairly well though, and then on the 2nd day it just didn't seem to want to start much at all and would not idle. I had to set the idle really high to keep it going. (Re-checked piston to be sure it wasn't going too lean, didn't seem to really get hotter than normal though and piston still looks fine). Was checking it today to see if I could figure out why it's not really starting now even after pulling the crap out of it. Seems like a spark issue maybe? And hence my question, at first I thought the coil was totally bad, but I just wasn't turning it fast enough I guess, but it only sparks when the flywheel is turning really fast, like quite a bit faster than I like to have them idling, more at about 1/4 to half throttle. I was turning the flywheel with a drill.


My main question is, is this a common sign of coils going bad and do most coils have to be moving at a certain RPM to provide any spark at all?

*(Also another related question aside from the spark, with my little old Echo 302S, when I remove the plug and crank it, I can tell it gets plenty of gas and it sprays mist out the plug hole, with this Homelite though it's not doing that?)

I have already tried removing the switch and jumping the two leads with a piece of wire, didn't make a difference. I have also cleaned all the contacts of the coil and where it mounts to the cylinder, and also inspected all the wires & plug boots, also tried different brand new spark plug. All same as before, needs high speed to make spark or it will not spark at all.

Already put a lot of time and effort into this saw, even though I guess some would consider it a pos/junk I was liking it for the weight & power good enough for me, and the price was right, $12 at a yard sale and $20 for the piston/jug so far. $32 all in and it was running pretty good for a minute there, would like to get it nice again but before I tried buying another ignition coil I wanted to make sure it would actually make a difference.
 
Is your coil gap set to .010? Too large of a gap means less energy into the primary coil.

I was taught to clean any surface rust off the magnets, too, but I don't actually know if that makes a difference. ive always done it as cheap insurance--takes 5 seconds and only costs me a scrap of sandpaper.
 
I cleaned the mount points of the coil and wires with wire brush. I will clean the actual parts of the coil that are near the flywheel too in a second here. I have gap on flywheel/coil very small, like business card gap. I wire brushed the plug too, same with either og plug or new plug. I guess I could gap the plug itself less but it ran fine before so I didn't think it was that.
 
+1 @JonCraig
I've seen saws that would not run correctly with just a bit too wide of an ignition coil gap.
Make sure the coil ground is good to the cylinder up where the plug is.
Also make sure the flywheel key isn't sheared, and it hasn't slipped.
 
all newer style coils have stages in them. should like you primary of your coil it going out. it should be between 200-340 volts. only way to test this is with a echo pet9000 but you have to know what btdc is at at 3000 rpms.
 
Well, I've made sure every surface and wire is squeaky clean at all contact points, tried different plugs including a brand new one, kill switch disconnected and connected/on and I get same result all ways, needs to be at about what 1/2 normal throttle speed would be to provide any spark, much faster than any normal idle would be imo.

Also I put a nice thick business card right on the flywheel at magnets and mounted the coil to set gap that way (which was pretty much same as what I had it already, checked before I did it and could just barely slide it in/out, then remounted with card in place. Very small gap. Same outcome again.

**Btw, I can see it is a Walbro coil, has Walbro stamped on the bottom. Was run very clean since I got it too btw, didn't let it get all caked up, I try to never let it do that.

Oh, and flywheel is not sheared, I can see/hear piston moving when I rotate with my drill at same speed as flywheel rotations and I'm turning the nut and the flywheel at same time. (Plus I can see everything moving together whether I rotate flywheel by hand slowly, with pull on, or with drill on the nut), still have to spin really fast to get spark as noted, what I consider about 1/2 throttle. I can't pull it fast enough to get spark, only with drill. I did actually have a homelite 150 that was an issue on once though, flywheel was sheared!
 
OK, I guess new coil it is then. Thanks guys for all the responses, and fast too! I'm starting to really like this place! :D

Hopefully I'll have some feedback to add from my experiences here in the future.

Just wanted to get more knowledgeable opinions, never had to do a coil before and I wasn't sure if this behavior was normal and it might be something else, or if it was a sure sign when they are going bad and common or what.
 
Sometimes you can revive a coil...put coil in a toaster oven for 2 hours at 200*. But this was from no spark state to good spark state. Dunno if cure applies here.
 
Sometimes you can revive a coil...put coil in a toaster oven for 2 hours at 200*. But this was from no spark state to good spark state. Dunno if cure applies here.
does that work on the new coils with circuit boards ? if so i need to give that a try
 
Curious and or ironic update. (I bought a bunch of used/parts/vintage saws I'll be going through and trying to get some of them running ongoing here btw.)

Next one I wanted to look at was a Husqvarna 136, various other details on that one relevant to the carburetor but more relevant to the particular issue with my homelite 45, this one definitely sparks at a lower speed. Still doesn't really seem as low as I would expect, but it's able to definitely spark at a slower rpm. Seems about same as my Echo 302S, which I also thought was a little speedy for spark but it runs good.

Now, the 3rd one on my ... wait 4th on the bench today, 3rd one I've tested for spark today anyway, a Stihl MS 192 TC. Has pretty much exact same symptoms as the Homelite. Will only spark at very high speed, about 1/2 throttle or even more. Am I to conclude that this coil too is bad? (Haven't looked yet but I imagine this coil is more expensive! Got the Homelite earlier for $15, which was still more than I wanted to put into this saw at this point but oh well I guess, want to see if it works!) A little hesitant to just order coil for the Stihl too... Or should I?
 
Curious and or ironic update. (I bought a bunch of used/parts/vintage saws I'll be going through and trying to get some of them running ongoing here btw.)

Next one I wanted to look at was a Husqvarna 136, various other details on that one relevant to the carburetor but more relevant to the particular issue with my homelite 45, this one definitely sparks at a lower speed. Still doesn't really seem as low as I would expect, but it's able to definitely spark at a slower rpm. Seems about same as my Echo 302S, which I also thought was a little speedy for spark but it runs good.

Now, the 3rd one on my ... wait 4th on the bench today, 3rd one I've tested for spark today anyway, a Stihl MS 192 TC. Has pretty much exact same symptoms as the Homelite. Will only spark at very high speed, about 1/2 throttle or even more. Am I to conclude that this coil too is bad? (Haven't looked yet but I imagine this coil is more expensive! Got the Homelite earlier for $15, which was still more than I wanted to put into this saw at this point but oh well I guess, want to see if it works!) A little hesitant to just order coil for the Stihl too... Or should I?


ebay
 
Just one other thought - you mentioned you had wire brushed the spark plug. Was this before or after the problem started? Wire brushing a spark plug can leave metal deposits on the insulator that can cause it to short out. Are you testing for spark with the plug or holding the coil wire close to ground? Have you tried another spark plug?
 
I was using a very fine brush, shouldn't have actually removed any material. Testing with the plug touching the cylinder? Yes I tried two or more on each with repeatable results.
 
I've mostly seen that coil baking for older stuff like some toro/suzuki & Lawn boy threads.
Can't imagine what you'd have to lose by heating the (questionable) Homelite coil.
https://www.************/threads/lb-10323-duraforce-ignition-coil-fix-baked-it.348842/

EDIT: oh for petes sake, just google the part of that URL that didn't get obfuscated.
 

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