wdchuck
Addicted to ArboristSite
If I knew then, what I know now....
Investment vs Payback
- Thread starter wkpoor
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Cambium
ArboristSite Guru
Good thread.
My investment:
Wood Stove: $320
Material for stove(flue,cap,ect) $475
14" Chainsaw: 150
Axe-Wedges-Mallet: 40
Wood: FREE
Total Investment:::: $985
Paid me back the very first year. Would have spent $2700 filling up oil tanks. Saved $2700!!
Haven't filled the tank since January of 09'. It's 6 degrees here with wind.
My investment:
Wood Stove: $320
Material for stove(flue,cap,ect) $475
14" Chainsaw: 150
Axe-Wedges-Mallet: 40
Wood: FREE
Total Investment:::: $985
Paid me back the very first year. Would have spent $2700 filling up oil tanks. Saved $2700!!
Haven't filled the tank since January of 09'. It's 6 degrees here with wind.
headleyj
ArboristSite Guru
for the record
-Kubota $16k (would have had anyways though so I don't count this)
*********
-OWB w/ mods and all associated - $6840
-Saws- $1k (would have had these anyways too, but just for arguments sake ok)
-Saw misc - $500
-boom pole/ tongs - $150
-Time - probably 8-10 solid weekends for 1 yr worth of wood (you know what, I'm not gonna put a value on this cause it's just part of the deal and I knew that going in)
TOTAL INVESTMENT = $8490
Savings - avg $175/mo for 6 mos/ year = $1050/ yr savings
9000/1050 = 8 YRS same as what I calculated when I bought it.
-Kubota $16k (would have had anyways though so I don't count this)
*********
-OWB w/ mods and all associated - $6840
-Saws- $1k (would have had these anyways too, but just for arguments sake ok)
-Saw misc - $500
-boom pole/ tongs - $150
-Time - probably 8-10 solid weekends for 1 yr worth of wood (you know what, I'm not gonna put a value on this cause it's just part of the deal and I knew that going in)
TOTAL INVESTMENT = $8490
Savings - avg $175/mo for 6 mos/ year = $1050/ yr savings
9000/1050 = 8 YRS same as what I calculated when I bought it.
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headleyj
ArboristSite Guru
what would you do different?
beerman6
Addicted to ArboristSite
I might not have been so hard on my body...but damn I had a ton o' fun.
beerman6
Addicted to ArboristSite
OWB=$5000
Splitter$1600
Saw was given to me
trailer I built for $350 dollars 15 years ago,not originally for wood.
2001 Ram,(I'm not gonna count this because it was bought to tow my old race car )
Wood=FREE!
Total not including gas/oil,misc. $6950
average monthly propane bill $450,thats 15.44 months to pay it all off I'm on my 5th winter with it...
I'm gonna show my wife this math and go buy a bigger/better saw.
Splitter$1600
Saw was given to me
trailer I built for $350 dollars 15 years ago,not originally for wood.
2001 Ram,(I'm not gonna count this because it was bought to tow my old race car
)Wood=FREE!
Total not including gas/oil,misc. $6950
average monthly propane bill $450,thats 15.44 months to pay it all off I'm on my 5th winter with it...
I'm gonna show my wife this math and go buy a bigger/better saw.
howellhandmade
Addicted to ArboristSite
I choose to look at my savings on heat as helping pay for my saw/maul/yard work habit. Just so happens that work (or walking to get somewhere) is about the only exercise I can stand -- it drives me nuts to just sit on an exercise machine and get tired accomplishing nothing. And my family loves having a fire all winter. Homework, reading, play, all gets done in front of the fire. It's a good feeling to go out and get something you need for yourself rather than depending on being fed every minute.
Jack
Jack
I am constantly reminded how cheap I am when I read these stories. My costs:
Saw 038 magnum: Free (inherited);
F-150: $0 - $4,000 11 years ago, depending how it is apportioned (need a truck whether I cut wood or not);
Stove: $250
Chimney: $750
Splitter: ~$30/ year (borrow a friends - I provide maintenance and parts, as needed)
Wood: Maybe $20/ load for gas and wear and tear.
Compare to:
Electric baseboard heat (only heat source in my house when I moved in) budget plan of $250/ month extra for 12 months = $3,000/ year.
Over the years, I have saved ~ $33,000 in electric costs. Total costs, including truck are ~ $8,000, for a savings of ~$25,000.
Seems worth it, I think.
Saw 038 magnum: Free (inherited);
F-150: $0 - $4,000 11 years ago, depending how it is apportioned (need a truck whether I cut wood or not);
Stove: $250
Chimney: $750
Splitter: ~$30/ year (borrow a friends - I provide maintenance and parts, as needed)
Wood: Maybe $20/ load for gas and wear and tear.
Compare to:
Electric baseboard heat (only heat source in my house when I moved in) budget plan of $250/ month extra for 12 months = $3,000/ year.
Over the years, I have saved ~ $33,000 in electric costs. Total costs, including truck are ~ $8,000, for a savings of ~$25,000.
Seems worth it, I think.
Cowboy Billy
ArboristSite Operative
Hey Bill
Come on ya know burnin' wood is just a excuse to buy toys. And ya know you love em. With exercise and warmth for free
What was expensive was joining this form. Thought my 2156 would be all the saw I would ever need. Don't know what I would need a 2186 for. But I got one now. Then came the 2171 (my favrite right now) And I am kinda wondering what it would be like to run a 100+ cc saw. I have seven saws now and am still looking.
Billy
Come on ya know burnin' wood is just a excuse to buy toys. And ya know you love em. With exercise and warmth for free
What was expensive was joining this form. Thought my 2156 would be all the saw I would ever need. Don't know what I would need a 2186 for. But I got one now. Then came the 2171 (my favrite right now) And I am kinda wondering what it would be like to run a 100+ cc saw. I have seven saws now and am still looking.
Billy
itn
ArboristSite Operative
It started as a way to save money. now it's an addiction. 
gwiley
Addicted to ArboristSite
itn
ArboristSite Operative
The first step to recovery is to admit you have a problem - issue I have here is that I don't want to kick the habit
:agree2:
It helps me justify my toys as well.
genesis5521
ArboristSite Operative
I'm saving big bucks.
LP gas around here (Northern Wisconsin) is about $1.75 a gallon. I use to use 900 gallons a year to heat my 1200 square foot manufactured home. My LP gas bill was around $1500 per year. Then I installed a high efficiency Napoleon wood stove in my living room for $3000 complete, including installation and all the chimney work. I already had a little Stihl Model M65 chain saw with a 14 inch bar. I bought a little Ryobi electric splitter for $299. Built some wood bins (cost $250) in my pole barn to hold 10 cords of split wood. I already had an ATV and small trailer to haul stuff around. Now I turn my furnace off in the winter and heat completely with wood. I gotta turn on just the furnace fan when it's really cold to keep my water pipes from freezing, as the water pipes are attached to the heat ducks under the house. If there's no warm air going through the duck work, the pipes will freeze. But the pipes are that "Pex" material, so they don't break when they freeze. The wood stove paid for itself at the end of its second year of use. A side benefit is that while it's a lot of hard work, I truly enjoy making firewood. I'm 64 and semi-retired (still work 2 days a week). I'm on my 5th year with the wood stove, so I saved $1500 for each of the last 5 years.
LP gas around here (Northern Wisconsin) is about $1.75 a gallon. I use to use 900 gallons a year to heat my 1200 square foot manufactured home. My LP gas bill was around $1500 per year. Then I installed a high efficiency Napoleon wood stove in my living room for $3000 complete, including installation and all the chimney work. I already had a little Stihl Model M65 chain saw with a 14 inch bar. I bought a little Ryobi electric splitter for $299. Built some wood bins (cost $250) in my pole barn to hold 10 cords of split wood. I already had an ATV and small trailer to haul stuff around. Now I turn my furnace off in the winter and heat completely with wood. I gotta turn on just the furnace fan when it's really cold to keep my water pipes from freezing, as the water pipes are attached to the heat ducks under the house. If there's no warm air going through the duck work, the pipes will freeze. But the pipes are that "Pex" material, so they don't break when they freeze. The wood stove paid for itself at the end of its second year of use. A side benefit is that while it's a lot of hard work, I truly enjoy making firewood. I'm 64 and semi-retired (still work 2 days a week). I'm on my 5th year with the wood stove, so I saved $1500 for each of the last 5 years.
Biker Dude
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm in pretty cheap,
Used boiler traded for a set of mud tires & rims cost me $200
Boiler repairs $500
346XP $250
034 Super $125
homemade splitter $200
Pex tube & insulation in the basement floor installed by myself $900
$2175 + another $200 per year for gas & bar oil & chains it still works out cheaper than filling a 500 gal LP tank every 5 weeks. at $1.75 per gallon that would be about $3500/year so mine paid off in the first year. I do agree that the value of wood burning should include the exercise and the self-sufficiency and the being out in the woods aspects too. I love it out in the woods!
Used boiler traded for a set of mud tires & rims cost me $200
Boiler repairs $500
346XP $250
034 Super $125
homemade splitter $200
Pex tube & insulation in the basement floor installed by myself $900
$2175 + another $200 per year for gas & bar oil & chains it still works out cheaper than filling a 500 gal LP tank every 5 weeks. at $1.75 per gallon that would be about $3500/year so mine paid off in the first year. I do agree that the value of wood burning should include the exercise and the self-sufficiency and the being out in the woods aspects too. I love it out in the woods!
WadePatton
ArboristSite Guru
wow, never really added it up. but i'm lower on the scale than most of what i've seen here
main thing is my time...but i really enjoy doing it.
nissan 4x4: free/inherited, but need work just now (which i'll do).
dodge: is my daily driving vehicle so only a small portion of that could be considered wood-cutting miles--maybe 5% as i'm only 2 miles from the main source. and it was paid for 5 years ago.
trailer: for big loads was purchased years ago to haul tractors and such.
splitter: i borrow the home-builts my neighbor makes.
saws: one "inherited", two bought new, two used: total ~ $900.
log pile this year free! normally cut dead fall on my place. black locust lasts for many years on the ground.
this is my 9th year of 100% wood heat and love it. when i build my cob home back there in the woods, it'll require much less wood to heat with its passive solar and self-thermal aspects.
**and the bill for ~400 kwh electricity per month with a cozy warm house** priceless!
(or ~$40).
on edit: i forgot to include my non-cost stove and flue. stove and flue came with house-stove was made in 1979. burned the grates out, now using stove retired by my grandfather 25 years ago-and of course i got for free. replace three sections of stovepipe and one elbow every so many years...
main thing is my time...but i really enjoy doing it.
nissan 4x4: free/inherited, but need work just now (which i'll do).
dodge: is my daily driving vehicle so only a small portion of that could be considered wood-cutting miles--maybe 5% as i'm only 2 miles from the main source. and it was paid for 5 years ago.
trailer: for big loads was purchased years ago to haul tractors and such.
splitter: i borrow the home-builts my neighbor makes.
saws: one "inherited", two bought new, two used: total ~ $900.
log pile this year free! normally cut dead fall on my place. black locust lasts for many years on the ground.
this is my 9th year of 100% wood heat and love it. when i build my cob home back there in the woods, it'll require much less wood to heat with its passive solar and self-thermal aspects.
**and the bill for ~400 kwh electricity per month with a cozy warm house** priceless!
(or ~$40).
on edit: i forgot to include my non-cost stove and flue. stove and flue came with house-stove was made in 1979. burned the grates out, now using stove retired by my grandfather 25 years ago-and of course i got for free. replace three sections of stovepipe and one elbow every so many years...
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Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm on the low end. My house came with a old side by side wood/gas combo furnance. 2-chainsaws $1000, splitting maul $40, and about $300 per year on wood and costs chainsaw gas, bar oil, files, etc. I haven't had the gas side of the furnace on in 3 years. I figure I easily am saving over $1000 per year on natural gas bill. Plus free exercise, no health club membership needed here. Not every place I have lived would be cost effective to burn wood. The great thing is getting to where you can live self sufficient and not have to rely on anyone else for gas or electricity is my goal.
Well I just got a $24 electric bill in the mail. I have no other utility bills.
The way I look at it, I will spend anything I can to reduce my regular monthly expenses. Then I have a lower cost of living. And thus have more "extra" money left over to do with what I wish.
I know a few people who had a lot of money invested in the stock market and lost upwards of $100,000!
I on the other hand have been investing my money in things which reduce my energy costs. So I now have a forever lower cost of living.
The best to me is a one time expense. Like a woodstove, chainsaw, wood splitter, insulation for the house, woodstove water heating system, etc.
I pay for these things, then that is that. No monthly payments. Just maintenance costs every now and then, but those are low because I can do that myself.
So you can install insulation, Energy Star windows, etc., then forever after that have lower energy costs. That is a good thing in my book! Like a retirement account. You are paying now to reduce your future cost of living. Once it is paid for, then that is that.
At the time I installed my woodstove, I had no idea how much equipment I would need and how expensive it all would be. So I sometimes think about if it was worth the cost. But then I see other people paying near $400 a month to heat their house and realize it was worth every cent!
I did run up some bills buying this and that, but with my little $24 electric bill, I am quickly paying this stuff off! So all my investments are starting to pay off big time this year. I'm pleased as punch!
As to actual return on my investment, I might buy a switch which costs $4 to plug a cell phone charger into. Then turn that switch off when not in use. This might save me 10 cents a month on my electric bill.
And I probably spent about $400 installing switches on electrical things. And these combined reduced my electric bill $2.50 a month. (Not counting TVs, microwave, computer, etc. which I had switches for already.)
Or $30 a year.
Or $300 for 10 years.
BUT, 6 years ago I spent $800 for a new refrigerator which saves me $15 a month on my electric bill. That paid for itself. So you can look at it as that savings is then used to pay for improvements which will save yet more and my cost was actually around $120 for the $400 worth of switches. (Subtract refrigerator savings after paid for itself.)
And now the savings for those two projects will be $17.50 a month on the electric bill. So the electric switches will be paid off in a year with help from the refrigerator.
Then I will have an extra $210 a year from the savings on my electric bill. (So long as the refrigerator does not break.)
It adds up!
The way I look at it, I will spend anything I can to reduce my regular monthly expenses. Then I have a lower cost of living. And thus have more "extra" money left over to do with what I wish.
I know a few people who had a lot of money invested in the stock market and lost upwards of $100,000!
I on the other hand have been investing my money in things which reduce my energy costs. So I now have a forever lower cost of living.
The best to me is a one time expense. Like a woodstove, chainsaw, wood splitter, insulation for the house, woodstove water heating system, etc.
I pay for these things, then that is that. No monthly payments. Just maintenance costs every now and then, but those are low because I can do that myself.
So you can install insulation, Energy Star windows, etc., then forever after that have lower energy costs. That is a good thing in my book! Like a retirement account. You are paying now to reduce your future cost of living. Once it is paid for, then that is that.
At the time I installed my woodstove, I had no idea how much equipment I would need and how expensive it all would be. So I sometimes think about if it was worth the cost. But then I see other people paying near $400 a month to heat their house and realize it was worth every cent!
I did run up some bills buying this and that, but with my little $24 electric bill, I am quickly paying this stuff off! So all my investments are starting to pay off big time this year. I'm pleased as punch!
As to actual return on my investment, I might buy a switch which costs $4 to plug a cell phone charger into. Then turn that switch off when not in use. This might save me 10 cents a month on my electric bill.
And I probably spent about $400 installing switches on electrical things. And these combined reduced my electric bill $2.50 a month. (Not counting TVs, microwave, computer, etc. which I had switches for already.)
Or $30 a year.
Or $300 for 10 years.
BUT, 6 years ago I spent $800 for a new refrigerator which saves me $15 a month on my electric bill. That paid for itself. So you can look at it as that savings is then used to pay for improvements which will save yet more and my cost was actually around $120 for the $400 worth of switches. (Subtract refrigerator savings after paid for itself.)
And now the savings for those two projects will be $17.50 a month on the electric bill. So the electric switches will be paid off in a year with help from the refrigerator.
Then I will have an extra $210 a year from the savings on my electric bill. (So long as the refrigerator does not break.)
It adds up!
wkpoor
Addicted to ArboristSite
For me the cost of this hobby was harder to justify because our utilities average 1200.00 a year. That is to heat and cool. Before wood I wouldn't take more than 250 gallons of propane a season with the heat pump. And electric is very cheap here at least for now. I just love wood heat plain and simple. Plus I do enjoy spending time in the woods and using a chainsaw. Or is that chainsaws!
I think the thing to look at is hourly rates for your equipment. If you have a $20,000 tractor and figure it is good for 2000 hours, every hour you run it, it will cost you $10. Don't forget fuel and maintenance. I know you'll have that monthly payment to balance the "savings" against, but you'll also use the tractor for snow removal and yard chores year round. You could probably move a lot of wood in an hour with a tractor. I'd venture to say you could move at least a few cords worth of logs in an hour. Do the same with your saws and splitters, trucks and trailers, and furnaces. Based on an hourly rate (determined by the cost of ownership and life expectancy) you'd probably be ahead. Unfortunately we can finance all these tools/ toys for their expected life. The one good part is, after you recover your cost in four, five, or six years, you'll have a few more years were your equipment costs will be minimal.
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
Stuff I actually use cutting firewood now, that I wouldn't have if I didn't:
MS360, used from Craigslist, $350
024AV, used from Craigslist, $150
Fiskars Super Slitter, $50
Logrite Peavy / Timberstand, $75 (I think...bought it from the owner of the company)
Two felling wedges, cheap
Helmet, Chaps $125
PPE Boots $200
Log Cart $150
Chimney $600
Stove $200
$1900 is what I have invested that I actually use and primarily have for firewood. That's what, a two year payback for me?
I'd have the pickup, land, and the other tools I use whether or not I burned firewood.
MS360, used from Craigslist, $350
024AV, used from Craigslist, $150
Fiskars Super Slitter, $50
Logrite Peavy / Timberstand, $75 (I think...bought it from the owner of the company)
Two felling wedges, cheap
Helmet, Chaps $125
PPE Boots $200
Log Cart $150
Chimney $600
Stove $200
$1900 is what I have invested that I actually use and primarily have for firewood. That's what, a two year payback for me?
I'd have the pickup, land, and the other tools I use whether or not I burned firewood.
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