Judge overturns State/Cal Fire findings

[dhskier2]

Judge over rules findings and orders Cal Fire pay $32M.
Sierra Pacific possibly going after fed's to get money back


http://spectator.org/articles/61516/was-sierra-pacific-victim-government-shakedown

 

[madhatte]

Wow, that's big. I will be interested to see the fallout of this case as well as the result of other cases using this as a precedent.

 

[2dogs]

This happened over a year ago but it is the news because Kamala Harris will in all likelihood be elected to Barbara Boxer's seat. This topic was discussed in the Fire thread.
http://wildfiretoday.com/2014/02/06...0-million-for-conduct-in-moonlight-fire-case/

 

[dhskier2]

Thanks. Any word on the present status, or is this article of current info?

 

[Gologit]

Thanks. Any word on the present status, or is this article of current info?

http://www.spi-ind.com/


Look at the headings under Breaking News on the home page. SPI is pissed off at the way they were treated by CalFire. I don't blame them.

 

[Joe46]

I have heard that a LARGE Eastern Wa. grower offered to help the state with some of their equipment during the Carlton Complex fire( The largest in the history of the state). These guys have D7-9 size Cats. The state turned them down because they weren't certified/qualified. I have no proof, but that was the word on the street.

 

[slowp]

I have heard that a LARGE Eastern Wa. grower offered to help the state with some of their equipment during the Carlton Complex fire( The largest in the history of the state). These guys have D7-9 size Cats. The state turned them down because they weren't certified/qualified. I have no proof, but that was the word on the street.

There are lots of rumors from that event. Lawsuits are being filed. Plus, the DNR apparently paid quite a chunk of change to a large orchard conglomerate for equipment and time. They had connections with the state land commissioner. Hmmmm, might that be another rumor about the same thing only a story of the opposite? Lots of rumors--probably years of litigation are to be had.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

wow, serious shtuff...but not surprising at all. FDR's admin did this sort of thing to the mining industry, among others, in the late 30s and into WW2.
Harris would just be litterBoxer on steroids...just lovely. This news just might help Carly a tad.

 

[BeatCJ]

I have heard that a LARGE Eastern Wa. grower offered to help the state with some of their equipment during the Carlton Complex fire( The largest in the history of the state). These guys have D7-9 size Cats. The state turned them down because they weren't certified/qualified. I have no proof, but that was the word on the street.

I was there later, from the people I worked with that were there in the beginning I believe there is an element of truth, BUT... all stories are told from a point of view.

 

[Joe46]

Agreed Ms. Patty and BeatCJ which is why I generally don't like posting hearsay, and I'm sorry I posted this without knowing the "real"truth.

 

[slowp]

One of the people who has been on a sound bite, is not the most reliable either. I worked with him eons ago.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

I was there later, from the people I worked with that were there in the beginning I believe there is an element of truth, BUT... all stories are told from a point of view.

the Cali FS does have that rule. Even if you are a veteran feller or have tons of chainsaw experience (ie, enough to teach the fkin' class) you have to take their 2-day certification class just to help clear 4x4 trails.

 

[Gologit]

the Cali FS does have that rule. Even if you are a veteran feller or have tons of chainsaw experience (ie, enough to teach the fkin' class) you have to take their 2-day certification class just to help clear 4x4 trails.

Do you mean the USFS or CalFire? Their requirements are quite a bit different from each other.

 

[2dogs]

the Cali FS does have that rule. Even if you are a veteran feller or have tons of chainsaw experience (ie, enough to teach the fkin' class) you have to take their 2-day certification class just to help clear 4x4 trails.

I don't know about 4X4 trails but to be a hired faller for Cal Fire for fire work you only have to take the annual hired equipment safety class. This is a one day classroom/shelter deployment session and then you go through the contract signing/equipment inspection on another day. S-130/190 is not a requirement nor is a pack test. At least that was through contract period 2014. Just yesterday I received my first e-mail regarding the 2015-2017 contract period and no changes were noted but Cal Fire's requirements can be a moving target. BTW most safety classes run March through May.

There is no requirement to provide expertise or experience with Cal Fire. When you sign your contract you are telling Cal Fire (and the USFS) that you can do the job. Whoever you are assigned to will fill out the evaluation portion of the paperwork. If you do a poor job it will be noted. Fallers have to provide their own PPE, vehicle, saws, etc. They do not have to provide a radio, Cal Fire will provide one.

I am sure there will be some changes for the 2015-2017 period and I will post them here when I find out what they are. IIRC the last contract period pay was $967.00/day for the Faller Module, that is a Faller/Swamper team. Unless you work lots of days the money isn't great. This year should be little better.

 

[2dogs]

Do you mean the USFS or CalFire? Their requirements are quite a bit different from each other.

The safety training is the same but that is about it.

Edited to add: That is what I have heard only. I have not worked for the USFS.

 

[slowp]

the Cali FS does have that rule. Even if you are a veteran feller or have tons of chainsaw experience (ie, enough to teach the fkin' class) you have to take their 2-day certification class just to help clear 4x4 trails.

Yes you do have to be certified to do VOLUNTEER work on trails using chainsaws or crosscut saws for that matter with the USFS. I think that's a good idea. A lot of people THINK they are experts and could teach the "fkin" class but they really aren't and couldn't. That's exactly why there is a certification process. It gets everybody on the same wavelength as far as safety goes. Safety is the most important aspect of the certification. They don't want folks who do stupid, unsafe things. We are not production cutters, we are volunteers who do what we can, and in a safe manner. We don't get as much done as a production cutter could, but what we do is better than nothing. We are not even supposed to be doing any falling. We are buckers.

The whole certification process was started after there was a series of falling accidents in the 1980s.

There is a difference between the classifications and the recertification requirements. The group I volunteer with is quite a large one and got the go ahead from the USFS to do their own certification. Instead of going through it every year, they go every other year and you are either an A bucker (trainee) or B bucker (good for any size). I've been B certified for chainsaw use and A certified for crosscut use. There's a lot to learn with the latter...

You also need to have a current First Aid and CPR card.

 

[slowp]

On the Carlton Complex, two guys were arrested. I heard of another "backfiring" attempt by panicked landowners that almost trapped a fire crew.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/aug/14/more-arrested-in-connection-with-carlton-complex/

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Do you mean the USFS or CalFire? Their requirements are quite a bit different from each other.

The safety training is the same but that is about it.

Edited to add: That is what I have heard only. I have not worked for the USFS.

I only know about the FS. The main beef is w/in the 4x4 community around here...have skills and tools but cannot use them w/o a certificate. This applies to pre-opening of trails or 'official' work days where the FS has something to do with putting it together. Some clubs that sponsor trails are stuck with the same rules as well. If I'm on an open trail and a tree is down...it goes away If I lived anywhere near where they do the certifications I'd probably go but its a 2hr drive for me to any of them. I'm assuming it has something to do with liability.

 

[2dogs]

Thanks for the clarification Chris.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Thanks for the clarification Chris.

I understand their rules...well, sort of...just don't like um