Kickback Questions?

[iowawoodcutter]

I was wondering how a chainsaw could kick back into your head/face area. I have had kickbacks a few times, but it is always minor and the saw gets pushed directly back (handle grip shooting towards me) towards my leg and almost always I stop it before it gets there. The only way I could see it happening if there is another log on the other side that you catch the tip with. I never run into that situation though because I only do one piece at a time.

I guess if you saw from underneath and put a tremendous amount of upward pressure and don't relax it as you come to the end, I could see that also.

just curious because I read about a kickback to the face on the injuries section.

thanks

 

[husky362]

please read a safty manual it has details

the worst kickback comes from the tip suddenly rising

i beleave you are getting push back

every saw is dangerous

 

[danrclem]

I've never had a saw have a serious kick back and I hope I never do. The place that I think would be the most dangerous is limbing because some of the limbs are sticking up in the air. I cut my limbs to length while they're still on the tree. It would be easy to get into another limb behind the one that is being cut and if it is head height it could kick back in your face.

 

[Ironbark]

TreeCo's link explains explains it really well.

It's also important to keep a firm grip of the front handle. I'm not trying to win a prize for stating the obvious, but I've notice people have a tendancy to move their thumb up onto the same side as their fingers. Any kick from the saw and you could easily loose your grip.

 

[2FatGuys]

Another thing to keep in mind is that chain selection greatly affects the saws reaction. Those that have never seen or experienced kickback have probably used only the "safety chains" produced by multiple manufacturers. The "pro chain" is much more apt to kick back if handled incorrectly. The tie straps on "safety chain" have geometry that prevents the cutter edges from taking a good bite when rolling over the tip of the bar.

Those of us that do this professionally, whether full time or part time, have all seen how it can happen and try to avoid those situations. However, it is not always possible to avoid it. Be prepared for kickback... it happens.

 

[smokechase II]

From the Stihl manual:

To avoid kickback
The best protection from personal injury
that may result from kickback is to avoid
kickback situations:
1. Hold the chainsaw firmly with both hands and maintain a secure grip. That means BOTH thumbs always engaged as stated by Ironbark.
2. Be aware of the location of the guide bar nose at all times. The nose kickbacks are usually the worst as they send the bar/chain back at an angle and the end of the bar covers a lot of ground.
3. Never let the nose of the guide bar contact any object. Do not cut limbs
with the nose of the guide bar. Be especially careful when cutting small, tough limbs, small size brush and saplings which may easily catch the chain. This from the department of redundency department.
4 Don’t overreach. Loss of control in two respects.
5. Don’t cut above shoulder height. DofRD again again and what if you throw a chain when cutting above head height? Even without a kickback you get chain in the face disease.
6. Begin cutting and continue at full throttle. The more power you have and the sharper your saw is can either reduce kickback or get you in trouble. Don't be fooled as you move from one wood to another.
7. Cut only one log at a time. Could two different binds ever cause a problem?
8. Use extreme caution when reentering a previous cut. Ask yourself; "Self, why am I going back in?"
9. Do not attempt to plunge cut if you are not experienced with these cutting techniques. This is in direct violation of those that teach you can use plunge cutting on open face technique from day one. Good point.
10. Be alert for shifting of the log or other forces that may cause the cut to
close and pinch the chain.
11. Maintain saw chain properly. Cut with a correctly sharpened, properly
tensioned chain at all times.
12. Stand to the side of the cutting path of the chainsaw.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

The only way I could see it happening ...

Cory, please don't take this as an insult, because it's not intended that way. It's intended to be helpful.

That's a very dangerous attitude. Just because you can't see how it could happen, doesn't mean it can't. It doesn't even mean that it would be rare.

The only way I could see it happening if there is another log on the other side that you catch the tip with.

Yep, that's a common cause of kickback.

I guess if you saw from underneath and put a tremendous amount of upward pressure and don't relax it as you come to the end, I could see that also.

That would not be kickback. Kickback is generated by the saw's power, not by the operator's muscles. It's FAR more dangerous!

just curious because I read about a kickback to the face on the injuries section.

Curiosity is a good thing. It prompts us to learn. While you're being curious, be one more thing:

Be SCARED.

Rational fear is a good thing - it keeps us safer. Fear of kickback is rational.

<br><br><br>

 

[iowawoodcutter]

Cory, please don't take this as an insult, because it's not intended that way. It's intended to be helpful.

That's a very dangerous attitude. Just because you can't see how it could happen, doesn't mean it can't. It doesn't even mean that it would be rare.




Yep, that's a common cause of kickback.






That would not be kickback. Kickback is generated by the saw's power, not by the operator's muscles. It's FAR more dangerous!




Curiosity is a good thing. It prompts us to learn. While you're being curious, be one more thing:

Be SCARED.

Rational fear is a good thing - it keeps us safer. Fear of kickback is rational.

<br><br><br>

I'm not insulted, I'm here to learn...

 

[Billy_Bob]

I always tell my helpers "Watch the tip of your saw!"

Then I say it again...

"Watch the tip of your saw!"

It is the top 1/4 of the tip of the saw which can catch on something, dig in and the cutting tooth gets stuck, then stops there.

So just imagine the upper portion of this 1/4... A cutter cuts into a piece of wood, then it travels down and out from there going around the tip. This drives the cutter MORE into the wood to get MORE stuck in the wood!

Then when the cutter is stuck in the wood, the chain suddenly stops moving, but there is still momentum. What happens with that momentum is the saw comes flying upward.

With this said, imagine if the bar of your saw were to come flying straight up like this... Where would that bar go? If you are standing to the left of the "plane" of the bar, it would go past your right shoulder. If you are standing with the bar if front of your face, it would come up and smack you in the face!

So always stand to the left of the plane of the bar.
And "Watch the tip of your saw!" Don't let that tip come in contact with anything.

Additional protection is to wear a hardhat/face shield and a chainsaw protective shirt/vest. Then of course chaps and chainsaw protective gloves.

Here is a diagram of where most chainsaw injuries occur...
(About 1/2 way down page)
http://www.elvex.com/facts08.htm

 

[avalancher]

Chainsaw safety vest or shirt? Didnt know there was such an animal. I use chaps, but didnt know anyone offered a safety shirt or vest. Did a quick search on Baileys and didnt turn one up.
Anyone know where you can get one?

 

[husky362]

I always tell my helpers "Watch the tip of your saw!"

Then I say it again...

"Watch the tip of your saw!"

It is the top 1/4 of the tip of the saw which can catch on something, dig in and the cutting tooth gets stuck, then stops there.

So just imagine the upper portion of this 1/4... A cutter cuts into a piece of wood, then it travels down and out from there going around the tip. This drives the cutter MORE into the wood to get MORE stuck in the wood!

Then when the cutter is stuck in the wood, the chain suddenly stops moving, but there is still momentum. What happens with that momentum is the saw comes flying upward.

With this said, imagine if the bar of your saw were to come flying straight up like this... Where would that bar go? If you are standing to the left of the "plane" of the bar, it would go past your right shoulder. If you are standing with the bar if front of your face, it would come up and smack you in the face!

So always stand to the left of the plane of the bar.
And "Watch the tip of your saw!" Don't let that tip come in contact with anything.

Additional protection is to wear a hardhat/face shield and a chainsaw protective shirt/vest. Then of course chaps and chainsaw protective gloves.

Here is a diagram of where most chainsaw injuries occur...
(About 1/2 way down page)
http://www.elvex.com/facts08.htm

this is a good diagram of injurie's, not all do to kickback

show's you really have to watch where your chain is to your body position
at all time's

 

[Burvol]

You get hurt by either doing crazy **** (obviously) or getting in too big of a damn hurry! Don't watch pros and think that you can move like that. WE HAVE YEARS of experience and many of us have SCARS. Be careful and take smoke's advice, especially on the grip and the super sharp hot chain. Dull chians are really, really dangerous.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Chainsaw safety vest or shirt? Didnt know there was such an animal. I use chaps, but didnt know anyone offered a safety shirt or vest. Did a quick search on Baileys and didnt turn one up.
Anyone know where you can get one?

Stihl and Husky both make one.


http://www.stihlusa.com/apparel/protective-apparel.html

http://www.usa.husqvarna.com/node3253.aspx?nid=45726


Where to buy it, I don't know...

 

[Austin1]

You get hurt by either doing crazy **** (obviously) or getting in too big of a damn hurry! Don't watch pros and think that you can move like that. WE HAVE YEARS of experience and many of us have SCARS. Be careful and take smoke's advice, especially on the grip and the super sharp hot chain. Dull chians are really, really dangerous.

+1 too big a hury I would say is #1 reason for accedents. I have caught myself with this. I start bucking up wood using a big dead fall as my saw buck about waste height next thing you know you are waste deep in rounds! Time to shut the saw off and move them before the bar tip hits one or they get in the way of a good stance wile cutting. Also I should mention I have had a few kick backs the worst from a 32 cc saw!Got the bar pinched and it came strait back handle hitting me in the knee but the brake worked fine

 

[Billy_Bob]

Chainsaw safety vest or shirt? Didnt know there was such an animal. I use chaps, but didnt know anyone offered a safety shirt or vest. Did a quick search on Baileys and didnt turn one up.
Anyone know where you can get one?

Here is one...
http://www.stihlusa.com/apparel/features_shirt.html

 

[Nailsbeats]

Cutting firewood in a log pile will give you plenty of kickback opportunities. Undercutting through a piece, then catching a log on the far side as you come through, or trying to set down in a piece and catching the far log with your tip.

Filing the rakers too low on your chain will also make kickback worse, this is the single most common thing I see, the chain will want to bight everything it nicks, if it's dull too, the teeth won't cut they will grab and throw the saw back.

When I cut in the woodpile, I will sometimes bore into the log about 2" below the top of it and cut down, that way if I contact a far log it will throw the bar into the strap of wood that I left. If you are going to bore, keep the chain sharpened right, a firm grip, and steady preasure.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Cutting firewood in a log pile will give you plenty of kickback opportunities. Undercutting through a piece, then catching a log on the far side as you come through, or trying to set down in a piece and catching the far log with your tip.

Filing the rakers too low on your chain will also make kickback worse, this is the single most common thing I see, the chain will want to bight everything it nicks, if it's dull too, the teeth won't cut they will grab and throw the saw back.

When I cut in the woodpile, I will sometimes bore into the log about 2" below the top of it and cut down, that way if I contact a far log it will throw the bar into the strap of wood that I left. If you are going to bore, keep the chain sharpened right, a firm grip, and steady preasure.

:agree2:
Excellent advice. My rule of thumb when working in a log pile is to try, if at all possible, to move the log being cut into the clear, away from the rest. Sure, this takes some effort, but I have found that's the safest possible way to work the pile.

Climbing on top of the logs is also hazardous duty because they can suddenly shift on you as you are cutting. If at all possible, get the log being cut onto the ground somehow, someway. I have even dragged them down with the truck if necessary using a strap to the hitch.

 

[jwarren2165]

I cut most my firewood from a log pile think I will start boring mine. Amazing at how simple and I never done it .

 

[RON58]

I have a very good buddy,Bobby that has lived his life since the age of 3 with out a dad because of kickback. Cutting alone and took one to the neck. This really does happen fellas.

 

[046]

here's the shirt I use... along with a peltor chainsaw helmet, a pair of competition chaps (double thickness) and steel toe boots.

yup.. I look pretty stupid.. but I don't care

Chainsaw safety vest or shirt? Didnt know there was such an animal. I use chaps, but didnt know anyone offered a safety shirt or vest. Did a quick search on Baileys and didnt turn one up.
Anyone know where you can get one?