King Crimson Norway compatability with nearby black walnut?

[rayIN]

I have a 30 yrear old king crimson that is starting to die out at the crown that is coinident with havint a walnit of 8 years grow 20 feet away. Could it be juglone poisoning?
I know silvers aren't tolerant, but sugars and reds are. I couldn't find any info on the web.

 

[lego1970]

I don't know the answer to your question but the university of Ohio did an extensive study a few years back and they had a list as to what plants were affected and what were not. Maybe try googling something like "ohio black walnut study". Before jumping to conclusions try useing a systematic approach and be sure to think of not only what's going on in your yard but all the areas surrounding the tree. Any recent ground work or alteration to the yard in the last few years, such as any heavy equipment been on the yard, new patio, new pool, etc, etc. Has the anything changed about the run off into or out of your yard? Has the sunlight changed, such as another tree was cut down, or a building put up? Any other Crimson Maples in the neighborhood or area showing similiar signs? Any obvious signs of insect or pest such as bore holes, leaves being chewed? Try calling around the local nurseries and asking if any pest or diseases specific to that tree are around? That's all I can think of, good luck.

 

[Ed Roland]

Plant chemical warfare is highly variable. Soil type, moisture, microbial populations, species, etc. Could the the phenolics of the maple effect the walnut or the juglans of the walnut effect the maple? Maples are listed as being tolerant of juglone.

I'm with Lego and would worry less about allelopathy and concentrate more on optimum cultural conditions. Considering the species involved I would associate crown dieback with root disturbance before anything else.

 

[Rickytree]

Does the tree perhaps have defects? Girdling root, possible wounds in branches or trunk?

 

[rayIN]

Thanks for the responses
Nothing has changed, except I allowed a walnut to grow nearby about 10 years ago. The crimson is mature and is maybe 30 inches DBH. Another crinson of similar age is unaffected and stands 80 feet away from the Walnut.

If its root girdle, it's too late to do anything for the tree.

However, I would cut the walnut down if I could find info that Norways aren't tolerant.

From first had experience I know silvers are not tolerant, but sugars are. I'm not sure of reds. I also found one site that noted silvers to be intolerant of jugluns.

If anybody runs across information on norway/jugluns compatibility please reply. Thanks

 

[Ed Roland]

"The depth of walnut lateral roots may vary in response to root competition with its associates. In one study, lateral roots of walnut occupied a much shallower position in pure walnut stands than in mixed walnut-ash stands. This was explained by theorizing that the ash, having a strongly developed surface root system, forced the walnut roots into deeper soil layers. Root competition with Norway maple (Acer platanoides), on the other hand, was not as intense (47)."

Juglans ntdra L

As an associate the maple is more of an antagonist than the walnut.

Post some pictures and we can try and figure out the causal issue.

 

[lego1970]

I'm sorry I can't help, but I'm a little skeptical about the alleopathy. However I've been wrong before. Last summer and fall that's all I did was haul walnut logs and there were dozens of different spieces of trees growing within the drip line of some of the big walnut trees that were havested. Now I don't remember which speices they were or if any were in the Maple family, but I do remember making a mental note of how none of those trees were affected. I do know my neighbor has 4 big walnut trees and yet there are dozens of young silver maples growing out from his fence line that he has to clip back or pull out all summer long. That fence line is directly beneath two of the Walnut trees. The mature Silver Maples in which the young ones spawn from are all within 75' from the large Walnut trees and one Silver Maple is only 45' from two of the large Walnut trees. Likewise, I use walnut mulch that I get free from the sawmills on my flower garden and I haven't had any issues with my plants.

Having said all that, I wonder if the younger Walnut is more potent to help it establish dominance, where as the mature Walnut trees that I've been around have already been established for decades. I wish I could help but I don't know about the Crimson's response, or even what signs to look for.

Good luck.

 

[rayIN]

Thanks.
Pics won't do much good until it leaves out. It's really unremarkable except that each year (for the past 3) more and more upper branches fail to bear leaves - usually big branches and they seem to die all the way back to the trunk.

Regarding Silvers, in my younger years I used to plant them, and every one died when they were near a mature black walnut (in retrospect I was lucky, as I found I didn't like them), but sugers, ash & hackberry did fine.

Perhaps this crimson is dying of old age - It could as old as 40 - sorry, I was mistaken in my first post.

 

[Ed Roland]

I tend to under react to Juglans nigra as apex predator. Certainly, Solanacea is doomed near black walnut but otherwise it may be enough to know that a healthy living soil can largely counter effects, otherwise.

http://amo.colorado.edu/schmidt1988.pdf

I bet, with some sluething, you find a neighborhood dog uses the tree exclusively as a toilet or compaction or turf fertilizers or any number of things is the true culprit.

Good luck.